the "casual" martial artist

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Kirk
Beautiful comedy!!

but at what cost... ?

i may have single handedly ruined my own thread...

 

[dearnis.com]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[Jill666]

Regarding the casual student-

There are a few teens in my dojo (it's commercial) and I see them showing up 5 min. late every night because they rush from soccer practice. They don't practice on their own and it shows. They hold the same rank they did thwo years ago, and if the material is over their heads, then the instructor will not hold the class back. I've heard him talking to the parents in question, telling them why Johnny isn't in the advanced classes yet.

The adult casual students don't last long-

But there is one man in my class who comes in when he can but he's a far cry from the casual student. He's 22, working full time, raising his 7 yo son by himself. Sometimes he doesn't make the class, sometimes he brings his son with him (the boy falls asleep on a bench inside and when class ends at 9:30pm Carlos picks his sleeping child up & my training partner gives them a ride home). But he practices every day, and it shows. He will be testing for his 2nd dan in the summer. To the outside observer, he may look casual as he comes in when he can, child in tow, until he shows his stuff.

I'm actually quite interested in chunner's post about the no-hoper, it seems there must be some aspect of the art that he may do well in, then perhaps a light-bulb will go on in his head, allowing other aspects of his work to improve.

Just a thought from someone who has never taught.

 

[tarabos]

i've been exposed to a few "no-hopers" myself, and while it seems impossible that a person wouldn't be able to catch on to at least one aspect of the art, be it the mental, physical or even spiritual side, it does happen. it's tough to know where to go with them when you realize that there isn't much progress that's going to be made.

the people mentioned that come in on a limited basis, but are still quite good, it just goes to show that some just have a real knack for this stuff and take to it really easily.

 

[Old Warrior]

Never stand in judgment of anyone. As long as your rules are followed and respect accorded to the teachers, anyone who shows up and tries - counts and should be welcome. I have watched students with physical limitations, who have little skill and are unlikely to get better, routinely show up and try their best (while they are there). The fact that they don't practice at home and aren't getting significantly better is of no import. There is room for all types of students as long as they conform.

Having said the above, it is also the right of each school to demand a certain level of interest and reject all those who do not conform. But, I would rather have an active school with students of all kinds of motivations, who go out into the community and speak well of the art and its devotees. The martial arts need not be the centerpiece of your life for it to have meaning to you and for you to be able to enjoy the benefits it accords.

 

[sweeper]

well I think to some degree it also depends on the instruction, my class is VERY casual, most students do come late or on random days because they work, and some realy don't try hard, it just bugs me when someone doesn't try and it holds others back, I realy don't think that's an unjust concern.

jill666 personaly I wouldn't mind the teens as much, if you have other obligations than you have other obligations. I mean deppending on their age they quite posably work (to some degree) they are probably in school so they have homework, and in a sence they are still kids so you can't realy expect them to drop all social interaction, throw in MA and soccer and their time is gona be shot. I wouldn't mind to much as long as they don't get in the way, and it sounds like your instructor took care of that

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
Never stand in judgment of anyone. As long as your rules are followed and respect accorded to the teachers, anyone who shows up and tries - counts and should be welcome. I have watched students with physical limitations, who have little skill and are unlikely to get better, routinely show up and try their best (while they are there). The fact that they don't practice at home and aren't getting significantly better is of no import. There is room for all types of students as long as they conform.

Having said the above, it is also the right of each school to demand a certain level of interest and reject all those who do not conform. But, I would rather have an active school with students of all kinds of motivations, who go out into the community and speak well of the art and its devotees. The martial arts need not be the centerpiece of your life for it to have meaning to you and for you to be able to enjoy the benefits it accords.

Since this is any open forum and people can post, I guess your post will be accepted in this thread. Even though it might not conform by stating that everyone else's posts are annoying.
:shrug:

Now, I have worked and trained with students who are blind, have MS, or other issues that might limit there growth rate. Yet, you can see that in class they are serious and hence not casual.

So, I guess since you do not conform to my standards of posting you should not be allowed to post here? The answer is NO WAY! You have just as much right as anyone else to post.

We have a thread about people being upset about frivolous posts.

We have a thread and people who are upset about a convicted criminal.

We have thread from THE Administrator about feedback, to see if some of the grumblings were serious or limited in scope.

Just my opinion, if you disagree say so. Do not get personal. This is how the threads escalate and then people are left wondering "What Started this? And it could be just as easy the word Annoying.


Oh BTW Have a Nice Day. I will try to also, and hopefully Tomorrow I will get through customs and back home to the USA. :asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Many of mine have been casual. They don't stay past yellow, it seems. They don't seek me out for more work/help.(As I have asked to do when needed)

I even had a to ask a Black Belt from another style to leave because all she wanted was to workout, pick up some stuff, and not get involved into the system.

I've worked too hard all these years to be a casual Tae Bo type instructor.

 

[tarabos]

Regarding: "this thread is annoying"

i don't mind that anyone finds the thread annoying. we're all entitled to our opinion. and Old Warrior still gave some constructive input with his "annoying" statement...it's almost as if he missed the point and completely got the point all at the same time.

if all he said was "this stupid thread is annoying," then well...i might not be able to consider that constructive . but he backed up his statement, so to each his own opinion...:asian:

unless he was speaking of the "belt hunter" bit...that was funny and annyoing so i'll give him that one...

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Jill666
There are a few teens in my dojo (it's commercial) and I see them showing up 5 min. late every night because they rush from soccer practice.

hey! i used to roll in a bit late from soccer practice when i was in high school!

[/B]They don't practice on their own and it shows. They hold the same rank they did two years ago, and if the material is over their heads, then the instructor will not hold the class back. I've heard him talking to the parents in question, telling them why Johnny isn't in the advanced classes yet.[/B]

that sounds pretty casual to me, or just lazy . when i was playing soccer it would take up a lot of my time in the martial arts, but i was still getting some great excersise as well as fantastic cardio conditioning. i never expected to come back and be able to pick up where i left off though, and my instructor never entertained that thought either. but i'm still there today and it's my main focus now as it has been for many years (and always was when soccer season was over).

the "parents" issue is another one that would be good in a separate thread. actually it probably has been addressed in a thread before. still, it's a hurdle in the MA business that has to be dealt with from time to time, and in a way it does tie in to a student not giving it their all in class or outside. perhaps they don't want to be there in the first place and that is why they seem casual.

 

[Old Warrior]

I did not speak disrespectfully to anyone, but addressed my comment to the subject of the thread. In no way can it be said that I sought to silence anyone. However, the idea that one cannot or should not pursue the martial arts "casually" is troublesome to me and I find it annoying that there are people who take themselves so seriously that they would exclude all who are not like minded from the benefit of their knowledge.

For the most part, as Americans, our lives are not in danger every day. I am 54 and I can state with certainty that I have not used any of my martial arts training to actually defend my life. While the subject matter is serious and I have always taken it as such, there is a place in the pursuit for those who have a passing interest. And, there will always be a few who after a casual exposure, will seek in depth knowledge. There is no reason to exclude those who are only slightly interested. Everyone who conforms to the requisite discipline should be welcome. Anyone who disagrees, in my opinion, needs an attitude adjustment.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
I did not speak disrespectfully to anyone, but addressed my comment to the subject of the thread. In no way can it be said that I sought to silence anyone. However, the idea that one cannot or should not pursue the martial arts "casually" is troublesome to me and I find it annoying that there are people who take themselves so seriously that they would exclude all who are not like minded from the benefit of their knowledge.

For the most part, as Americans, our lives are not in danger every day. I am 54 and I can state with certainty that I have not used any of my martial arts training to actually defend my life. While the subject matter is serious and I have always taken it as such, there is a place in the pursuit for those who have a passing interest. And, there will always be a few who after a casual exposure, will seek in depth knowledge. There is no reason to exclude those who are only slightly interested. Everyone who conforms to the requisite discipline should be welcome. Anyone who disagrees, in my opinion, needs an attitude adjustment.

I agree. This is pointless. From day 1 till the end of time, there will always be casual students whose priority in life is not the same as yours. This is like asking if it matters to you if other students at your colleges or high school do their homework or not. LOL! WHo cares!

The hardcore will find other hardcore to train and socialize with. The casual will go on with their lives. That is the way things have being and will be till the end of time.

You can have your own school where only serious students may enroll. That is your perogative.

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
I agree. This is pointless.

perhaps it is, but is there any real point to discussing anything on the internet besides getting people to have a conversation? especially a forum like this.

so the way i see it, discussion is the point...expressing opinions and views and of course just shooting the breeze at times on subjects that might not be so "deep."

no one on this thread should have been attacked for stating his or her views and to this point i don't think anyone has really...i think we've all seen worse. but now i'm going off topic so i'll just stop there.

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
I did not speak disrespectfully to anyone, but addressed my comment to the subject of the thread.

agreed...let's move on.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos
but now i'm going off topic so i'll just stop there.

hehe.....my subliminal messaging is working on everybody!

:rofl:

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
hehe.....my subliminal messaging is working on everybody!

:rofl:

as long as you don't make me wake up one day with a strange desire to leap in front of a car you can do all the subliminal messaging you want....

 

[Rich Parsons]

Casual Students who do not try can take time away from the serious students. If you make a living on your club then you may want as many students as you can fill in the room. If you do not care about the money or do not wish to waste every other student's time by going over the same technique for the last three week AGAIN, well then move on. Yet, the student could feel left out and then want to leave.

Hence this discussion how do you keep the students interested and in the class. How do you get rid of a problem if it is a problem.

Oh Yeah JN et al, Life is pointless. Why do you even bother to post here? You get up in the morning then you may eat and then you spend you trivial day in depression and then you may go to sleep, or just lay there waiting for the next day.

So, Tarabos did not take offense. Old Warrior replied and said he did not mean to make anyone quiet by his post. Yet there are newbies who may not post to avoid being drawn into conflict, until they know more. So your intent may have been ok, yet your impact may not have been. Yet this post is pointless for everyone will do what they will do any ways? We have absolutly no impact on each other here on the planet. Yep it is pointless.

Back to building cars, filling out reports on quality and making sure the build process improves, Yet why bother since it is all pointless.

:asian:

I look forward to everyone's posts. Even those I disagree with. For you see those are the ones I might learn the most from.

Just my opinion.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos
as long as you don't make me wake up one day with a strange desire to leap in front of a car you can do all the subliminal messaging you want....

Nah, I've got that saved for someone else

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by tarabos
perhaps it is, but is there any real point to discussing anything on the internet besides getting people to have a conversation? especially a forum like this.

Are you saying in this forum, there is no real point other than to get a conversation going?

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Are you saying in this forum, there is no real point other than to get a conversation going?

90% of the time yes. it's a discussion forum. people may ask about getting answers to questions they've been thinking about or post the ocassional poll or joke or whatever, but in the end it's all still conversation to me (to ME, not speaking for everyone). what you take from the conversation is what you take, a new understanding of something, a new friend, a new enemy perhaps....but that's all dependent on the person.