The big hook punch

[kaizasosei]

what makes the big hook so hard to see coming? typically, you see a fighter tie up his opponent with a jab and then whilst it's so frigging obvious as an onlooker, the person getting punched often doesnt even notice the big hook until it's too late. sometimes, there is a hell of alot of power packed in the punch, sometimes it's a little swifter, but it sure is pretty darn invisible much of the time and many get knocked out by this punch....
i have some ideas, but id be glad to learn more...

i first noticed this in highschool when i was schooling someone in an afterhours 'fight'- and after i had pretty much gotten tons of hits in on him, at some point he still took this big swing that smacked me loud in the cheek. again, in other fights, i was once struck by two swings to the jaw(after being headbutted). and most recently in sparing my partner got in a fairly solid jaw shot in-also a hook type punch...
so please do try and explain the deceptive nature of this strike.

 

[jarrod]

by "big" hook do you mean a haymaker, or do you just mean a hook?

in either case, it's primarily about throwing it from the right angle. this is why southpaws usually land lots of hooks on orthodox boxers. from the right angle, the punch can only be detected with your periphial vision. when adrenaline is going, people tend to get tunnel vision, so it looks as if this arcing punch comes out of nowhere.

jf

 

[kaizasosei]

by "big" hook do you mean a haymaker, or do you just mean a hook?

basically both. but the haymaker has an even larger curve and moves further off the center line.

thanks for the great answer. I was thinking along those lines.
sometimes, the punch is fairly straight and it still isn't really registered so im thinking it also has to do with timing and distraction.

also, i was thinking that when the arm is that far back getting ready to strike, it is not yet perceived as a threat. this reminds me of strikes in swordarts where one the arm(s) open up with perfect posture(sortof like the typical jesus pose with arms open) only to come out of nowhere to strike really hard.

 

[jarrod]

i think that any distraction (like the one you described) also helps sneak the hook in there.

did you ever see the second sugar ray robinson vs roberto duran fight? at one point robinson starts windmilling his right hand like he's loading up for a big cartoon punch, then pokes duran with his left. the really funny thing is, i use this & it works a lot. i think sometimes a technique works because your opponent believes that it isn't supposed to.

jf

 

[sgtmac_46]

As has already been noted, it's because the punch comes in on the peripheral vision.....especially when properly applied in a short tight hooking motion, versus the much larger, more dramatically articulated 'haymaker'......which makes the hook a very effective 'sucker punch'.

On the other hand, as it is a very short range punch, keeping your reactionary distance from your opponent is an effective counter, requiring him to fire his more long range (and hence straighter) arsenal at you. A hook is an up close punch, especially when fired off the rear leg/hand, such as a right hook fired from a traditional left lead boxing stance.

 

[thesandman]

On the other hand, as it is a very short range punch, keeping your reactionary distance from your opponent is an effective counter, requiring him to fire his more long range (and hence straighter) arsenal at you. A hook is an up close punch, especially when fired off the rear leg/hand, such as a right hook fired from a traditional left lead boxing stance.

This is an excellent point.

I find the hook punch to be the last resort after a mistake has already been made. If someone is throwing a hook at you, you let them get too close. They are by their nature, easily defended.

 

[pesilat]

It also has to do with things like tunnel vision and conditioned responses.

If I throw several straight shots (i.e.: jabs & crosses) in a row then my opponent is probably looking for another straight shot and the hook is very likely to catch him off guard - this is especially true if I've trained myself to initiate hooks with the same body setup that I use for straights (check this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8elyh6jbuIg&NR=1 - at about 40 secs into it Bill Wallace touches on this by going high, high, low).

So by throwing a few straights I can set up a "conditioned response" in my opponent. He's expecting another straight and a hook has a higher probability of landing. If he's tunnel visioned and focused on that "pipe" that the straights keep coming in on then he'll literally be blind to the hook coming in.

Mike

 

[Deaf Smith]

by "big" hook do you mean a haymaker, or do you just mean a hook?

in either case, it's primarily about throwing it from the right angle. this is why southpaws usually land lots of hooks on orthodox boxers. from the right angle, the punch can only be detected with your periphial vision. when adrenaline is going, people tend to get tunnel vision, so it looks as if this arcing punch comes out of nowhere.

jf

Yea tunnel vision. I believe it! Unless you are totaly unafraid and self confident I can see getting that and missing not only a hook punch, but a hook kick!

Deaf

 

[jarrod]

Yea tunnel vision. I believe it! Unless you are totaly unafraid and self confident I can see getting that and missing not only a hook punch, but a hook kick!

Deaf

prime cro-cop, anyone? k, it wasn't a hook kick, but it came from the outside all the same.

jf

 

[Jimi]

I thought that was Sugar Ray Leonard who fought Duran. (From the DC area, I know Sugar Ray) What Sugar Ray did was typical for him, to winde up a false wide angle bolo upper cut to occupy your eye (Sences) and tag you with the jab. My older brother used to pretend to wind his fist up (Twisting his fist to look like it was winding up like a rubberband) like a Popeye Corkscrew punch then fire the punch on a Corkscrew (Not like a true overhand corkscrew boxing punch) to confuse me on its way to my head. Any wide angle hook or loopy uppercut (Ideally) should be noticed by an alert fighter (Boxer etc...) but it is always a dice roll. My old USABF coach would have said, if you did not notice the punch coming it's all your fault. You did something wrong & your opponent did something right. LOL. Sometimes when an attack that should be noticed easily but does not, it is unfortunate for the receiver. I was sparring back in my teens with guys from the DC area who were training to go for Golden Gloves competition, I luckily slipped a head hook that I never saw. I was cornered and taking a beating to the body, I turtled up my elbows to my ribs, then took a stepping slip along the ropes to get out of the corner. I was surprised to notice my sparring partner looking at me with a smile and my coach was laughing. He had fired a head hook off after a low left body hook gunning for my top knot Just trying to get out, I avoided the head shot and never saw it. My coach asked "Did you see that he was gonna hook your head?" I said "No Sir!, I smelled it coming." I was lucky, but some times even the most telegraphed shots can still hit you. I think it has more to do with Murphy's Law than Anything. LOL. PEACE

 

[jarrod]

I thought that was Sugar Ray Leonard who fought Duran.

you are completely right, i got my sugar rays confused. at least i didn't credit either of them with being a pop singer.

jf