The Belle Epoque

Hey Jaz---this is a toughie, because the question you're posing involves history so recent that we're still in the midst of it. I feel kind of at sea on this---like most people, I am trying to be reaslistic---on the one hand, not in denial, but on the other, not looking for the apocalypse around the next corner....

The Belle Epoque began with open borders and free movement of people back and forth without hindrance, a state of affairs that the growth of the European Union has tried to re-create in our own time. And it ended with barbed wire and the Treaty of Versailles. In our own time the same thing has happened---for our safety and survival, we feel the need to seal every last hole in our borders, monitor our own activities as much as possible, and in effect give up all the aspirations we thought were going to come true when the Cold War ended. I think we're in the same place that the West, particularly Europe, was in 1919, say---in deep shock, and bleak pessimism. Radical Islamist zealotry has been the tip of the spear we're looking at, no question. But now we know that anyone can do this---you don't need a nation-state, just a group of people enough burning conviction, to pose a serious threat to humanity, at least in the thinking of people whose thinking shapes opinion and attitude generally.

Your question about the very rough-edged and harsh trends in current music goes to the heart of this new reality we at least feel we live in. I think people for the first time regard the personal threat of violence as something unconnected with crime (again, this is the view of the prosperous, living in protected enclaves) but rather with terrorism, violence as a way to coerce compliance with beliefs we have no intention of adopting as our own.

But I have no clue whether any of this makes any sense or is the best way to view our current situation... help! Anyone out there have another take on this? Jonathan?? :confused:

it makes lots of sense... just not sure where to apply it:)

i do think there's a mitigating force in the growth of the internet- websites, blogs etc-- this in many ways as taken the place of the open borders and free flow of peoples. even the radical jihadis maintain websites these days and entertain email. Perhaps this in some odd way will give the people themselves a voice over their dogmatic leaders and allow greater understanding of the root issues that divide people the world over.

I think fear has been a state of mind that the media plays on so regularly that it’s almost numbing— islamic fascists, global warming, bird flu, e. coli outbreaks, war, genocide, oil crisis, drugs, cancer, massive drought, wild fires, mudslides, tsunamis, environment disasters, earthquakes… the list goes on— and we still manage not be found in the corner of a room balled up in a fetal position whimpering “the darkness.”

most americans still go out and buy something when it becomes too overwhelming to contemplate. then they feel better.

Hmmmm, maybe this is as belle as it gets.
 
it makes lots of sense... just not sure where to apply it:)

i do think there's a mitigating force in the growth of the internet- websites, blogs etc-- this in many ways as taken the place of the open borders and free flow of peoples. even the radical jihadis maintain websites these days and entertain email. Perhaps this in some odd way will give the people themselves a voice over their dogmatic leaders and allow greater understanding of the root issues that divide people the world over.

Jaz---I'd like to think that's the case. But for that to happen, it's crucial that internet providers not accomodate the repressive demands of national governments that will only let them operate if they censor themselves in accordance with those governments' wishes. I'm thinking of course of the `gentleman's' agreement that Google is said to have worked out with the Chinese government, blocking certain sites deemed excessively pro-democracy in their content. I have this strange sense that the internet is actually a much more fragile medium for the the free flow of contending ideas than a lot of its most enthusiastic fans appreciated. This may just be my own inclination to pessimism and discouragement emerging, but I do think a lot of people who are relying on the internet to give us open borders at least in the `virtual world' may be overlooking just how reactionary most (or all?) nation-states can still be in protection of the power and privileges of their ruling elites. I really don't want to be right about this!

I think fear has been a state of mind that the media plays on so regularly that it’s almost numbing— islamic fascists, global warming, bird flu, e. coli outbreaks, war, genocide, oil crisis, drugs, cancer, massive drought, wild fires, mudslides, tsunamis, environment disasters, earthquakes… the list goes on— and we still manage not be found in the corner of a room balled up in a fetal position whimpering “the darkness.”

most americans still go out and buy something when it becomes too overwhelming to contemplate. then they feel better.

Hmmmm, maybe this is as belle as it gets.

You know, that may well be the crucial point. Getting back to the very first posts on this thread, the Belle Epoque probably was most belle for the people who could afford to spend most of their morning sipping coffee and writing letters to each other. For most people, it was probably more a time when personal domestic crises and hassles crowded out their concerns about invading armies. The era had nothing like the information overkill that you were alluding to, and people's consciousnesses weren't subject to endless parades of horrors of the kind ours is. But there's always enough in ordinary life to get you to wake up worrying at 3:30a.m.... those concerns normally will take center stage in most people's live unless something really apolcalyptic, like WW!, comes through their windows.

I think some of the belleness of the epoque was just that---that people had the luxury of directing their worry to the many small-scale fears and dangers arising in ordinary life, which they went about just the way you describe. Nostalgia will turn that precoccupation with the immediate and personal realities of life, even if these are unpleasant, into the sense of a lost golden age. What we have now is this awful background noise of imminent doom and the feeling that things way beyond our control may be about to destroy that domain of everyday life. Given the way every threat and danger is magnified these days, it's true---things may never get any more belle than they are now...
 
Given the way every threat and danger is magnified these days, it's true---things may never get any more belle than they are now...

well, then, i suggest a toast. everyone get a glass, i'll pour the 93 dom perignon for this special occassion.

to our belle epogue, forgive us, for we never knew we had it so great.

cheers!
:drinky: :drinky:

(oh well, it's just like us americans to drink it from the bottle)
 
well, then, i suggest a toast. everyone get a glass, i'll pour the 93 dom perignon for this special occassion.

to our belle epogue, forgive us, for we never knew we had it so great.

You know, that's probably the best thing we could do at this point---celebrate the fact that things aren't nearly as bad as they could be... is that that too grim? If so, I suppose the Dom will make us feel much better about it! :wink1:

cheers!
:drinky: :drinky:

(oh well, it's just like us americans to drink it from the bottle)

Right---none of these fancy fluted thingies---just pass the bottle around, and here's to you, me, Jonathan and everyone else on MT!
 
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