The 'average guy on the street'

[Lee Mainprize]

3-4 years training minimum twice per week with a good coach and good system you can achieve a good standard of skills..however Black Belt should be the beginning of someone training whereas in a lot of cases its the end sadly.

 

[7-starmantis]

I think those schools that hand out black belts like candy and are "family friendly" are a disgrace to the martial world and should be shut down. Fighting is no "NICE, Family friendly activity" and Sifu's and Sensei's that teach their students these fantasy moves and techniques without making sure that they can apply them for real(in real life-angry huge man situations) are putting people at risk of injury and possibly death. I study 7 Star Preying Mantis Kung Fu and am currently at a Brown level( one before black) and have had to practice and train with sweat, blood, and agony for 2.5 years just to get here(and I passed all my tests on time), and I just hate it when I hear of these schools giving people black belts in a year. The "Average Joe" may just beat down one of these lightly taught people pretty easily. As for those of us who've trained hard and practiced...well, I manage a restuarant and had 7 of my "average guy" employee's tell me that my Kung Fu didn't matter and that their street fighting(or what they watched on UFC TV) would easily defeat me. So I had them over to the house for a fight night. UFC gloves only, no groin kicks, breaks, or eye gauges. Everything else goes fight. I'm not trying to brag but I whooped them all. Every one. You can check out the fight's on Youtube-(mikedeegan903). Keep in mind that I was a intermidiate student at the time. This was a while ago. So....yes, the average guy who's pissed could prolly whoop the light trained martial artist...but as for the serious, even if he/she is a newer student. NO WAY. The average Joe swings wildly and misses every time.(except I got my nose broke that night cause I underestimated 1 wild swing of my employee and didn't block it. OOPS! LOL, then I beat him so bad he puked in my lawn. Ya'll have a great day!

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think those schools that hand out black belts like candy and are "family friendly" are a disgrace to the martial world and should be shut down. Fighting is no "NICE, Family friendly activity" and Sifu's and Sensei's that teach their students these fantasy moves and techniques without making sure that they can apply them for real(in real life-angry huge man situations) are putting people at risk of injury and possibly death. I study 7 Star Preying Mantis Kung Fu and am currently at a Brown level( one before black) and have had to practice and train with sweat, blood, and agony for 2.5 years just to get here(and I passed all my tests on time), and I just hate it when I hear of these schools giving people black belts in a year. The "Average Joe" may just beat down one of these lightly taught people pretty easily. As for those of us who've trained hard and practiced...well, I manage a restuarant and had 7 of my "average guy" employee's tell me that my Kung Fu didn't matter and that their street fighting(or what they watched on UFC TV) would easily defeat me. So I had them over to the house for a fight night. UFC gloves only, no groin kicks, breaks, or eye gauges. Everything else goes fight. I'm not trying to brag but I whooped them all. Every one. You can check out the fight's on Youtube-(mikedeegan903). Keep in mind that I was a intermidiate student at the time. This was a while ago. So....yes, the average guy who's pissed could prolly whoop the light trained martial artist...but as for the serious, even if he/she is a newer student. NO WAY. The average Joe swings wildly and misses every time.(except I got my nose broke that night cause I underestimated 1 wild swing of my employee and didn't block it. OOPS! LOL, then I beat him so bad he puked in my lawn. Ya'll have a great day!

I took a weight lifting class in high school and I never lifted incorrectly again. My point is that people can be better off knowing a thing or two that they didn't know before without a trial by fire. I agree Black Belts are too readily sold, but the practitioners are better off than they were before in most cases.
Sean

 

[7starmantis]

I'm not sure how I feel about this being the thread that pulls me out of retirement.

However, I think the thing that is missing in this debate is, well no offense, but reality. If we are talking about frat guys trying to impress chicks that is one thing, but if your talking about defending your life, its a completely different discussion. The truth is you are going to get hurt, maybe maimed, maybe dead. You train in order to decrease those odds but you simply can't get rid of them. You are going to get hurt, the question is, how much? The sooner you accept that, the sooner your training become more realistic. I agree that a little training could help, but if done correctly should help the trainee to understand when to run like a baby girl, not engage an attacker if at all possible. I also think it can and does very often, give people a false sense of security, but then I think hard years of training tends to do the same thing, maybe even more so. I also agree that hardcore training for years shifts the risk/benefit ratio in your favor, but the truth is, its still pretty stacked against you the moment you enter a fight for your life.

You had better be willing to snatch the life out of someone in an instant or your odds continue to plummet. That being said you have to understand your also in the position to lose your life in an instant. Thats a mental aspect of realistic training that has baffled coaches and trainers since the beginning of time. How do you train for that? Answer is, you can't. And that needs to be understood by those who are training most of all. Training in and of itself has an inherent flaw, which is confidence. You know why surgeons screw up simple surgeries or leave sponges inside patients? Its not because the surgery was beyond their skill or training, its because it wasn't. The flaw to training is confidence itself, which is also one of the major tools it gives you. But you must be realistic about your training and your confidence.

Most of you dont remember when I was active here and so dont know my background (and I've learned so much even sense then), but I have a decent amount of training under my belt. However, I also have a fair amount of science and medical training and experience seeing those trained fighters dead. It sounds like I'm saying training is useless and I'm certainly not. I train harder than most people I know. I'm simply saying we have to understand the truth, the reality about what we are discussing. Its something so dynamic no discussion can ever really do it justice. The point I'm trying to make (albeit verbosely if anything) is that we should all take a step back and examine our own training reasons and methods. What do you want out of your training and is your training realistically giving you said skills. If so, train hard my friends, but make no mistake, we train in a precarious art, one of fighting odds so massive its nearly depressing. But that is what drives us, that is what pushes us to be realistic, to train hard, to constantly re-examine our goals and our methods. To enter the lab (schools, dojo, etc) and try different things and fail a lot. Then learn from failing in that controlled environment and bettering ourselves.

Understand that fighting for your life is something you can't reproduce in training, ever. Understand that and let it push you to train as realistically and urgently as you can. Certainly training gives you skills to protect yourself in these types of situations, but dont make the mistake of not counting the sponges before sewing up your patient, just because you have trained for it. Constantly re-examine your methods and your skills. Learn from everyone, newbies, oldies, and those in between. Learn from the untrained and try to take something away from every training experience to add to your arsenal. Only then are you really going to have the tools to address a situation so foreign to most of us, so severe and final like defending your life. Only then will you be able to adapt to the situation and give yourself the best possible chance of going home to you family.

Just my $0.01

 

[MJS]

I'm not sure how I feel about this being the thread that pulls me out of retirement.

However, I think the thing that is missing in this debate is, well no offense, but reality. If we are talking about frat guys trying to impress chicks that is one thing, but if your talking about defending your life, its a completely different discussion. The truth is you are going to get hurt, maybe maimed, maybe dead. You train in order to decrease those odds but you simply can't get rid of them. You are going to get hurt, the question is, how much? The sooner you accept that, the sooner your training become more realistic. I agree that a little training could help, but if done correctly should help the trainee to understand when to run like a baby girl, not engage an attacker if at all possible. I also think it can and does very often, give people a false sense of security, but then I think hard years of training tends to do the same thing, maybe even more so. I also agree that hardcore training for years shifts the risk/benefit ratio in your favor, but the truth is, its still pretty stacked against you the moment you enter a fight for your life.

You had better be willing to snatch the life out of someone in an instant or your odds continue to plummet. That being said you have to understand your also in the position to lose your life in an instant. Thats a mental aspect of realistic training that has baffled coaches and trainers since the beginning of time. How do you train for that? Answer is, you can't. And that needs to be understood by those who are training most of all. Training in and of itself has an inherent flaw, which is confidence. You know why surgeons screw up simple surgeries or leave sponges inside patients? Its not because the surgery was beyond their skill or training, its because it wasn't. The flaw to training is confidence itself, which is also one of the major tools it gives you. But you must be realistic about your training and your confidence.

Most of you dont remember when I was active here and so dont know my background (and I've learned so much even sense then), but I have a decent amount of training under my belt. However, I also have a fair amount of science and medical training and experience seeing those trained fighters dead. It sounds like I'm saying training is useless and I'm certainly not. I train harder than most people I know. I'm simply saying we have to understand the truth, the reality about what we are discussing. Its something so dynamic no discussion can ever really do it justice. The point I'm trying to make (albeit verbosely if anything) is that we should all take a step back and examine our own training reasons and methods. What do you want out of your training and is your training realistically giving you said skills. If so, train hard my friends, but make no mistake, we train in a precarious art, one of fighting odds so massive its nearly depressing. But that is what drives us, that is what pushes us to be realistic, to train hard, to constantly re-examine our goals and our methods. To enter the lab (schools, dojo, etc) and try different things and fail a lot. Then learn from failing in that controlled environment and bettering ourselves.

Understand that fighting for your life is something you can't reproduce in training, ever. Understand that and let it push you to train as realistically and urgently as you can. Certainly training gives you skills to protect yourself in these types of situations, but dont make the mistake of not counting the sponges before sewing up your patient, just because you have trained for it. Constantly re-examine your methods and your skills. Learn from everyone, newbies, oldies, and those in between. Learn from the untrained and try to take something away from every training experience to add to your arsenal. Only then are you really going to have the tools to address a situation so foreign to most of us, so severe and final like defending your life. Only then will you be able to adapt to the situation and give yourself the best possible chance of going home to you family.

Just my $0.01

WOW!! A blast from the past! Welcome back man! Good to see ya posting again! Hope all has been well with you.

As for your post....well said...very well said. Cant disagree with anything here.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

7starmantis, i totally agree. i worked in the Texas prison system for six years. no amount of training will ever make you totally ready for a full on fight for your life. not saying inside those walls is everyone's real life and average guy either. just saying it happens in the blink of an eye. i think being mentally prepared to do lasting and permanent damage to an attacker is as important as physical readiness. if you aren't prepared to maim or kill an attacker, then everything you know is useless.

one other tool i have at my disposal in the state of Texas is the ability to carry a concealed firearm. but that throws a whole new dynamic in the mix. not only is my gun dangerous to my attacker, but if i lose control of it, you can bet it will be used against me. and that is something i have to train to prevent. ideally i will never have to draw it and certainly never want to use it. but, just as in a hand to hand fight, if i am not ready to take someone's life with it, it can and will be taken from me and used on me. this is something i have gone over in my head and heart over and over and prayed on. if it comes down to me or an attacker, i truly believe i will be able to pull the trigger. now i said this to reiterate the necessity of being mentally prepared to do permanent damage to or kill someone trying to take your life.

 

[7starmantis]

WOW!! A blast from the past! Welcome back man! Good to see ya posting again! Hope all has been well with you.

As for your post....well said...very well said. Cant disagree with anything here.

Thanks! Its good to see you still here, and Asst. Admin at that! Congrats!! All is well with me, just insane schedules. I'll drop in from time to time if you guys dont mind too much.

one other tool i have at my disposal in the state of Texas is the ability to carry a concealed firearm. but that throws a whole new dynamic in the mix. not only is my gun dangerous to my attacker, but if i lose control of it, you can bet it will be used against me. and that is something i have to train to prevent. ideally i will never have to draw it and certainly never want to use it. but, just as in a hand to hand fight, if i am not ready to take someone's life with it, it can and will be taken from me and used on me. this is something i have gone over in my head and heart over and over and prayed on. if it comes down to me or an attacker, i truly believe i will be able to pull the trigger. now i said this to reiterate the necessity of being mentally prepared to do permanent damage to or kill someone trying to take your life.

I've had my CHL for 6-7 years now and I agree with what you said. And I have (and continue) to contemplate pulling that trigger someday and its a terrible thing to think about, especially in my line of work. I honestly hope I never have to even produce my weapon, but I have a family to take care of and you are correct, its the same mentality you need to have when fighting for your life. Its terrible, its horrific, its distasteful to think about, but its reality. However, I do like a good fun sparring match with my kung fu brothers from time to time!! I think that experience plays a part in your reality training as well. there are so many aspects to it, its impossible to really discuss every one.

Deegan, welcome to the boards, I figured that was you. Keep training man! Wish we would have had more time to fight while I was in town this last time. Next time for sure!

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

I've had my CHL for 6-7 years now and I agree with what you said. And I have (and continue) to contemplate pulling that trigger someday and its a terrible thing to think about, especially in my line of work. I honestly hope I never have to even produce my weapon, but I have a family to take care of and you are correct, its the same mentality you need to have when fighting for your life. Its terrible, its horrific, its distasteful to think about, but its reality. However, I do like a good fun sparring match with my kung fu brothers from time to time!! I think that experience plays a part in your reality training as well. there are so many aspects to it, its impossible to really discuss every one.

duh, didn't even look at your location!

 

[SeaSharp]

I think those schools that hand out black belts like candy and are "family friendly" are a disgrace to the martial world and should be shut down.

This statement strikes me as a bit odd. I agree with the part about not handing out rank like candy. We can solve that problem by ditching the silly belts. My wife teaches yoga. There are students and there are instructors. Everyone is at different levels of ability. Instructors are certified and have to log X number of hours to even quality to teach. There is too much ego attached to the color of our belts.

I have to disagree with the shut 'em down part. The most basic problem is that we still haven't defined "average guy." To a prison guard, yeah, the average guy/average encounter - might be a biweekly death match with an convicted murderer on death row with nothing to lose. To others - the average encounter might be a semi-annual encounter with the overweight middle aged soccer dad who takes a poke at you for benching his kid. Deadly force / near deadly force is the norm in the first scenario. The second might be resolved with something as simple as evading and tripping the guy.

Everyone has different abilites. Eveyone has different tolerances for risk. Sure, ideally, we'd all be 19 yr old young bucks built like a US Marine and training several hours a day most days of the week. The reality is that training is only a small part of some people's lives and they commit to it accordingly. Other people are limited in their physical abilites - perhaps with arthritis, a heart condition, back problems, etc and they train accordingly. The solution is not to ban all those who cannot make it in a hard-nosed fight-for-your-life sink or swim dojo. I think of it like baseball. Some people will never have enough skill, ability or interest to move beyond playing Whiffle Ball in their back yards. Some will be good enough to play on a high school team. The majority of us will never make it beyond bar-league softball regardless of our desire to do more. That's what makes the world go 'round. I'm not a proponent of the idea that if you're not good enough to start for the Yankees you have no business playing at all.

Perhaps it would be helpful to think of those "other" schools as simply being in a different league. That way, it provides the ego with a mental defense when confronted with the fact that people with relatively little skill or ability hold the same rank as someone with profoundly more skill. That other guy holds the all time record for hitting home runs out of his back yard. I hold the record for homeruns in a little league field. You hold the AAA minor league record. Barry Bonds is the (steriod enhanced) HR king for the big leagues. We all hold the same title but none is under the impression that we're equal. Everyone plays to the maximum of their ability, interest & risk tolerance.

As far as rank is concerned - I've just stopped looking at what the guy beside me or behind me is doing. I don't care about rank and I certianly don't waste energy thinking about the color of the guy's belt in the dojo down the street. I know my own personal challenges and focus on overcoming them. I look to the guy ahead of me and try to emulate that. You (hopefully) only wear your belt in the dojo. Outside, it doesn't make a bit of difference.

 

[7starmantis]

The most basic problem is that we still haven't defined "average guy." To a prison guard, yeah, the average guy/average encounter - might be a biweekly death match with an convicted murderer on death row with nothing to lose. To others - the average encounter might be a semi-annual encounter with the overweight middle aged soccer dad who takes a poke at you for benching his kid. Deadly force / near deadly force is the norm in the first scenario. The second might be resolved with something as simple as evading and tripping the guy.

First, I want to point out the difference between the username 7starmantis and 7-starmantis. I'm not trying to answer for 7-starmantis by any means, just wanted to comment on something you said.

I can agree with the rank point, I hate it. I only wear mine out of respect for my Sifu, in fact I can't even remember if my current sash represents my correct rank! lol I think I tested again and we never changed the sash. I could care less. However one of my pet peeves is your statement here and I'll explain why. In order for your statement to be correct, it requires an assumption on your part. You must believe you know the complete intent of your attacker (soccer dad or PCP addict). I think thats a grave mistake to make. While your statement is correct, that it might just take a simple move, it implies a different mentality and reaction to being attacked based on your own bias and assumptions. That is a terrible mistake to make. Knowing when and how to stop at a trip vs maiming is a product of training, not assumptions based on how the guys looks or what event he is attending.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying you personally make that mistake, I just want to explain why I dont like those kinds of statements. I think you can de-escalate a T-ball dad without getting physical, even if it means simply walking away or running away. No need to get hurt or hurt him if its nothing serious. But if he takes the steps to assault you, you better not act without complete focus and intent. Thats how lots of people end up in the ER. I'm not saying you need to kill everyone, but addressing a physical assault with anything less than the gravity and seriousness of life/death is a mistake regardless of who it is. If you want to bring in the legal system, you better have a damn good reason for even tripping the guy; and telling a judge that you felt he wasn't a threat is like saying you just tried to shoot a guy in the leg to scare him. They tend to frown on that idea.

I dont really like these kinds of debates anyway, because so much is left undefined like you said, and fighting is so dynamic its impossible to discuss the myriad of possibilities. I think its better to just train in the most realistic way you can, in a school that meets your desires and goals, and not worry about everyone else. However, if we follow your example of the baseball titles, we would have to separate the family YMCA from the realistic CQ training schools. They aren't the same sport and that needs to be understood by all.

 

[MJS]

Thanks! Its good to see you still here, and Asst. Admin at that! Congrats!! All is well with me, just insane schedules. I'll drop in from time to time if you guys dont mind too much.

Thanks. Yes, I'm still here. This is my 'home away from home' so to speak. LOL. Good to see you. Check in when you can.

 

[MJS]

This statement strikes me as a bit odd. I agree with the part about not handing out rank like candy. We can solve that problem by ditching the silly belts. My wife teaches yoga. There are students and there are instructors. Everyone is at different levels of ability. Instructors are certified and have to log X number of hours to even quality to teach. There is too much ego attached to the color of our belts.

I have to disagree with the shut 'em down part. The most basic problem is that we still haven't defined "average guy." To a prison guard, yeah, the average guy/average encounter - might be a biweekly death match with an convicted murderer on death row with nothing to lose. To others - the average encounter might be a semi-annual encounter with the overweight middle aged soccer dad who takes a poke at you for benching his kid. Deadly force / near deadly force is the norm in the first scenario. The second might be resolved with something as simple as evading and tripping the guy.

Everyone has different abilites. Eveyone has different tolerances for risk. Sure, ideally, we'd all be 19 yr old young bucks built like a US Marine and training several hours a day most days of the week. The reality is that training is only a small part of some people's lives and they commit to it accordingly. Other people are limited in their physical abilites - perhaps with arthritis, a heart condition, back problems, etc and they train accordingly. The solution is not to ban all those who cannot make it in a hard-nosed fight-for-your-life sink or swim dojo. I think of it like baseball. Some people will never have enough skill, ability or interest to move beyond playing Whiffle Ball in their back yards. Some will be good enough to play on a high school team. The majority of us will never make it beyond bar-league softball regardless of our desire to do more. That's what makes the world go 'round. I'm not a proponent of the idea that if you're not good enough to start for the Yankees you have no business playing at all.

Perhaps it would be helpful to think of those "other" schools as simply being in a different league. That way, it provides the ego with a mental defense when confronted with the fact that people with relatively little skill or ability hold the same rank as someone with profoundly more skill. That other guy holds the all time record for hitting home runs out of his back yard. I hold the record for homeruns in a little league field. You hold the AAA minor league record. Barry Bonds is the (steriod enhanced) HR king for the big leagues. We all hold the same title but none is under the impression that we're equal. Everyone plays to the maximum of their ability, interest & risk tolerance.

As far as rank is concerned - I've just stopped looking at what the guy beside me or behind me is doing. I don't care about rank and I certianly don't waste energy thinking about the color of the guy's belt in the dojo down the street. I know my own personal challenges and focus on overcoming them. I look to the guy ahead of me and try to emulate that. You (hopefully) only wear your belt in the dojo. Outside, it doesn't make a bit of difference.

First, I want to point out the difference between the username 7starmantis and 7-starmantis. I'm not trying to answer for 7-starmantis by any means, just wanted to comment on something you said.

I can agree with the rank point, I hate it. I only wear mine out of respect for my Sifu, in fact I can't even remember if my current sash represents my correct rank! lol I think I tested again and we never changed the sash. I could care less. However one of my pet peeves is your statement here and I'll explain why. In order for your statement to be correct, it requires an assumption on your part. You must believe you know the complete intent of your attacker (soccer dad or PCP addict). I think thats a grave mistake to make. While your statement is correct, that it might just take a simple move, it implies a different mentality and reaction to being attacked based on your own bias and assumptions. That is a terrible mistake to make. Knowing when and how to stop at a trip vs maiming is a product of training, not assumptions based on how the guys looks or what event he is attending.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying you personally make that mistake, I just want to explain why I dont like those kinds of statements. I think you can de-escalate a T-ball dad without getting physical, even if it means simply walking away or running away. No need to get hurt or hurt him if its nothing serious. But if he takes the steps to assault you, you better not act without complete focus and intent. Thats how lots of people end up in the ER. I'm not saying you need to kill everyone, but addressing a physical assault with anything less than the gravity and seriousness of life/death is a mistake regardless of who it is. If you want to bring in the legal system, you better have a damn good reason for even tripping the guy; and telling a judge that you felt he wasn't a threat is like saying you just tried to shoot a guy in the leg to scare him. They tend to frown on that idea.

I dont really like these kinds of debates anyway, because so much is left undefined like you said, and fighting is so dynamic its impossible to discuss the myriad of possibilities. I think its better to just train in the most realistic way you can, in a school that meets your desires and goals, and not worry about everyone else. However, if we follow your example of the baseball titles, we would have to separate the family YMCA from the realistic CQ training schools. They aren't the same sport and that needs to be understood by all.

This is why, I like to go in assuming the worst, and easing up as necessary. In other words, looking at someone, I dont want to assume they're going to be an easy take, but instead, I want to assume that each person confronting me, has the potential to cause me some serious harm. I say this because in reality, I dont know what this person is/isn't capable of, and frankly, nobody else does either. Unless we can all read minds, we're not going to know if this guy is a trained fighter, or just some fat slob who's talking a big game, but couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

On and for the record, just because a CO gets attacked in the prison/jail, doesnt mean that he gets a green light to go overboard and stomp the guy into the ground. COs, just like LEOs, have a use of force guideline to adhere to, and unless we want to deal with the aftermath of justifying why you knocked every tooth out of the guys mouth, busted his nose, broke both arms, and threw him down a flight of stairs, you need to proceed with caution.

 

[punisher73]

Ok, for some reason my first post didn't go through.

The problem is that people use a general term with no meaning and don't define what they really mean.

The AVERAGE guy on the street is a white male almost 35 years old, middle class, married with 2 kids. He is about 5'9-5'10 and weighs about 160 lbs. THAT is the actual guy on the street.

What most mean with a statement like that is the average guy FROM the street referring to someone who lives in a higher crime location where fighting and violence is more prevalant. They are not the "average person".

No matter WHO you are actually talking about, it comes down to about 95% mental attitude. You have to know when and how to apply violence better than the other guy and not be hesitant to do so.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I think the best advice I ever got on this was to discard the condcept of the "average guy on the street", and assume instead that the attacker is stronger and faster than you. Train with the concept that even though you are outclassed, you will survive.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Also helps that one of my training partners is 6'4", about a million pounds of muscle, a former UW linebacker, and FAST.

 

[Cyriacus]

I think the best advice I ever got on this was to discard the condcept of the "average guy on the street", and assume instead that the attacker is stronger and faster than you. Train with the concept that even though you are outclassed, you will survive.

I am inclined to agree. Since even though the person is probably untrained and barely able to put up a fight, its not a risk you want to take.

Anyone i see, i assume could be armed with a Firearm, Knife, or concealed Cudgel instrument, and is able to Punch and Kick, and is Fast and Strong.
You cant go wrong that way.

 

[Lee Mainprize]

Lets face it most people do martial arts because they enjoy it - the Self Defence part is secondary.

The belt system is great for martial arts if it was taken away alot less people would participate - it keeps them motivated.

I know a few other industries tried to copy this but failed.

Maybe we need to view practitioners in a different way. I do agree though it is good examining the arts and a good instructor will prepare his students as best he can.

Many do what there instructors did and don't questions this.

 

[Mz1]

Being a martial artist doesn't necessarily make anyone a fighter. Some do it for health & fitness and never really want to spar hard nor fight. Getting hit in the face real hard that first time in a fight can be very shocking. There's a guy in our Muay Thai gym that's scared to spar. He's definitely the strongest there. He's got the most experience, not counting the instructors. His punches & kicks are also the most powerful and just as powerful as the instructors'. He's got excellent form/techniques. He has sparred a few times but didn't like it. We've sparred and I was beating him pretty bad, but if he landed something flushed....I would have gotten rocked no doubt.

 

[tinker1]

Average guys don't fight. Fighters fight. I fought a lot as a kid (5 - 21 years old) and everyone I ever fought trained in some shape or fashion. You don't have to ever worry about the average guy, it is the fighters you have to worry about. The high school wrestler, the local boxing guy, and yes the fellow Martial Artist. Fighters fight and fighters train. Average guys work and go to school, they don't fight.

Extremely excellent point. No one is ever going to start something if they think they are going to loose. NORMAL people don't want to fight, partly because they don't have confidence in their abilities, but mostly because they are people that just simply are no inclined to want to resolve conflict in that way. Those that are likely to start trouble are usually confident that they will win the fight. It's been my experience that most of these people are more bluster than any thing else. As my father used to say, "thet just want to raw jaw". If you stand before them in a confident manner, they are very likely to back down.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

The belt system is great for martial arts if it was taken away alot less people would participate - it keeps them motivated.

You're probably right about this, and imho, that's a very sad commentary. If a person is serious, they shouldn't need such things.