The Arts i plan on mastering / What is Mastering really mean?

[fissure]

I'm also assuming that you will take the smiley faces to represent the proverbial "olive branch"

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fissure
I'm also assuming that you will take the smiley faces to represent the proverbial "olive branch"

Surely .. but I didn't misspell grammar.

 

[fissure]

I wasn't aware that I had a lack of grammatical skills. At least I assume thats what you meant by "grammer skills".

No you didn't, but I'm fairly sure grammatical is the proper use in that context.
You see you said I had bad grammer, but used a slightly incorrect wording to say so, so I pointed out your ................................. it was meant to be funny.

 

[J-kid]

I am training for ufc. But its not bad to have weapon training incase i find my self on the street under attack and i find a stick or somthing.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fissure
No you didn't, but I'm fairly sure grammatical is the proper use in that context.
You see you said I had bad grammer, but used a slightly incorrect wording to say so, so I pointed out your ................................. it was meant to be funny.

Sorry ... I'll keep my eye out for it in the future

 

[bart]

I was about to post something about this snippet:

It seems to me that most weapon arts will probably never be used in real life. Not many people walk around with a Katana through their belt loop or a pair of sticks in their pockets.

But as it is addressed soley to Judo-kid, I'm going to start another thread that talks about this statement.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5544

 

[bart]

there are certainly eskrima systems that are stick-only (e.g. Balintawak) or at least weapons-only

Balintawak is not stick-only. They don't do double stick, but some do espada y daga and I can't think of one style that doesn't do mano-mano/empty hands. As a matter of fact, some of the Balintawak practitioners take great pride in their empty hand skills.

 

[Matt Stone]

Fissure -

I think that the reason you are catching flak about your replies to Judo-kid is based on your inexperience in relation to Filipino MA (FMA for short).

Judo-kid pointed out that:

Its always helpful for some weapons training also there trapping technics arnt bad ether.

While his spelling leaves tons to be desired, he makes his point simply - the trapping techniques (the appication of blocks and checks to "tie up" the opponent's attacking limbs) used in FMA to eliminate the opponent's ability to strike with a stick or knife, are equally applicable in empty handed situations, perhaps even moreso. This skill alone may well be responsible for quite a number of FMA converts from other arts.

With your background in TKD, judo and Shotokan, it is easy to understand the confusion regarding the intent in studying FMA, but were you to poll MMAists, there would likely be a large number responding in favor of studying FMA to bolster their defensive "standing game."

I have studied Modern Arnis as well as Yiliquan, and I have to admit that anymore I trap rather than simply block... I prefer to trap and secure an attacking strike rather than simply deflect and maybe grab it. Trapping also allows for deep penetration into the opponent's "real estate" when following through on strikes. By having his limb(s) trapped against him, it makes it extremely easy to control not only his limb responses, but to control where the rest of his body goes (making it very easy to direct him into friendly pieces of the environment, like car doors, bar stools, and toilets... ).

In addition to UFC, though, I suspect Judo-kid has the typical mid-teen desire to be the baddest SOB on his block. Learning how to use an innocuous weapon like an umbrella or rolled up newspaper as a fairly nasty weapon would appeal to just such a mindset with just such a goal... Hell, I'm 34 and it appeals to me too!

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by fissure
First, I must say I have zero experience in Escima or any other weapon training. For no particular reason weapon type arts have never interested me.
My question is for the thread starter, Judo-Kid. From reading your numerous posts throughout this board, it has been my understanding that your goal was to become a "great" fighter and win in UFC type competition (and possibly the hotly contested "tuff guy on the block" events). If this is so why train in Escrima at all? This is obviously not going to help you in the afore mentioned endeavors, as I don't think they allow participants to whack each other with sticks (well maybe in the neighborhood championship thing its O.K.).
It seems to me that most weapon arts will probably never be used in real life. Not many people walk around with a Katana through their belt loop or a pair of sticks in their pockets. As you have stated, your only interested in tech. for UFC type fighting. Stick fighting obviously doesn't fit this mold. If your not careful, someone may accuse you of trying to learn an ART.

\
So are you saying a pipe, bat, stick, etc. are never used in real life?

 

[Kiz Bell]

It seems to me that most weapon arts will probably never be used in real life.

OK Fissure, I'm taking your "real life" to read "UFC" here. In addition to points raised by Yiliquin1 above, learning a weapons art can aid one in timing, distance, co-ordination and fitness as well. Becoming a champion in a sport like UFC, where contenders typically have trained in a number of arts, would be aided by studying a wide variety of arts.

Judo-Kid, have your goals changed? Is becoming a UFC champ. no longer your intent? If so then I agree, weapon training could be helpfull. If not then how is does weapon practice help your UFC goal?
I'll state my point again as several seem to have missed it. It seems to me that you (Judo-Kid) are practicing an art that doesn't fit your stated game plan of becoming UFC Champ.In doing so you have unwittingly shone interest in a Martial Art, rather than simple fighting techniques.

I far as I can tell from his posts, Judo-Kid wants both, to be a great, well rounded Martial Artist AND a UFC champion. (But that's for him to say, I suppose.) What's wrong with wanting to be a UFC champ and the learn "art" side of martial arts at the same time? UFC champ cannot be a lifeling goal, if you do achieve it, you achieve it young and lose it young. There are no old UFC champions. Why not have an art to fall back on when your sporting championship has come and gone? There are old Escrima practitioners.

As to J-K having "unwittingly shown interest in a Martial Art", Judo-Kid has shown all along a whole lot more interest in the Martial Arts than most fighting enthusiasts I've met. Interest in fighting comps like UFC and the more general martial arts do not have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Kiz Bell
In addition to points raised by Yiliquin1 above, learning a weapons art can aid one in timing, distance, co-ordination and fitness as well.

A point I neglected to address. In Yiliquan, we study broadsword, straight sword, spear and staff (although we do have a number of other weapons we study, these are the only "official" ones that are required). They provide fitness development, timing increases, awareness of your relation to things around you in space is heightened, coordination is bettered, joint locking is more skilled, and throwing techniques (of your opponent, not the weapon) are enhanced.

Well said, Kiz.

Becoming a champion in a sport like UFC, where contenders typically have trained in a number of arts, would be aided by studying a wide variety of arts.

If for no other reason than to know what the competition may bring against you...

Interest in fighting comps like UFC and the more general martial arts do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Very well said.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[fissure]

AGAIN my intent with reguard to my original post was to make the connection with Judo-kid that he may already be practicing a Martial Art for reasons other than to be a UFC fighter.
The use of the art Escima was as follows - he is practicing said art. He has said before that his sole interest was to become a UFC fighter. Escrima ( at least in its weapon aspect) doesn't apply to his stated goal. Therefore, I proposed the idea that there was the possibility that he has already moved beyond his "fighting only" interest. Period. End of Statement.
As I said to begin with, I have no experience with weapon arts. If he had taken up fencing my point would have been the same.

MartialArtist, see my responce to the same question many posts ago.

I can see that trying to "prod" Jk into the above stated line of thought, is a much less popular than simply telling him he knows nothing becauce he is a kid.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by fissure
AGAIN my intent with reguard to my original post was to make the connection with Judo-kid that he may already be practicing a Martial Art for reasons other than to be a UFC fighter.

Fine.

The use of the art Escima was as follows - he is practicing said art. He has said before that his sole interest was to become a UFC fighter. Escrima ( at least in its weapon aspect) doesn't apply to his stated goal. Therefore, I proposed the idea that there was the possibility that he has already moved beyond his "fighting only" interest. Period. End of Statement.

Not really the end of statement. Perhaps the end of yours. Making a statement as you did above would be similar to saying that Tae Kwon Do (at least in it's kicking aspect) doesn't apply to real self defense as it is advertised to do in every TKD school around. That statement is inflammatory and flawed in its premise.

As I said to begin with, I have no experience with weapon arts.

And it is this that flaws the premise of your argument against Judo-kids FMA training.

If he had taken up fencing my point would have been the same.

And if the premise of your argument was solid, then substituting any weapons art would be fine.

I can see that trying to "prod" Jk into the above stated line of thought, is a much less popular than simply telling him he knows nothing becauce he is a kid.

Nice jab. Prodding him into a response seems to have only one goal in mind - to ram his inconsistencies down his throat. Perhaps rather than being so vindictive in our responses to a young and motivated, though misinformed, aspirant, we should endeavor to coach, train and mentor rather than bait, ridicule and prod...?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[fissure]

Kiz Bell

I far as I can tell from his posts, Judo-Kid wants both, to be a great, well rounded Martial Artist AND a UFC champion

If this is so, I have been missunderstanding his posts for many, many months and my last few posts have been for naught.

And , yes, I was refering to his future UFC carrer in my originall post. Since I have repeated myself over and over again, why not one more?
From one of my posts (possibly on this very page)

I agree that I should have used UFC instead of "real life",

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by fissure
If this is so, I have been missunderstanding his posts for many, many months and my last few posts have been for naught.

I would agree that many of Judo-kid's posts have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding not to mention the posting style of a poorly educated troll. He needs work on representing himself on the internet (and, in all possibility, in reality as well). That is something that time and experience will allow him to do better in the future.

I suspect Kiz is simply trying to give Judo-kid the benefit of the doubt. If you had been backed into a corner about an issue that you had defended religiously, and in the end were shown that perhaps, just perhaps, you had secretly harbored not the feeling and opinion you had made public, but were actually closer to the opposing viewpoint than you ever thought possible, would you openly declare such a thing to have happened, or keep it to yourself?

I would thank the person for showing me the error in my argument. I doubt most folks would be so concerned about their own consistency to want to do that. Most would hide the fact, evade the answer, and try to keep such a thing quiet.

You may well be on the money, but I don't think Judo-kid would be forthcoming with such an epiphany...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[fissure]

Yiliquan1, dude I'm having a hard time figuring out were I was doing as you sujest.

Prodding him into a response seems to have only one goal in mind - to ram his inconsistencies down his throat. Perhaps rather than being so vindictive in our responses to a young and motivated, though misinformed, aspirant, we should endeavor to coach, train and mentor rather than bait, ridicule and prod...?

When was I vindictive? When did I ridicule him?
You've been on this board a long time, I'm sure you've read many of JK posts. The way I have taken his post has been that he thought MAist who "delved" into there chosen arts were looking for more than was really there. I recall someting about "you guys shooting fireballs......". On the face of things , MAs are about kicking, punching, throwing, locking, choking, ect. But many people find more than this after a time, as I'm sure you know. I am saying that maybe he might have already be experiencing some of this.

Not really the end of statement. Perhaps the end of yours. Making a statement as you did above would be similar to saying that Tae Kwon Do (at least in it's kicking aspect) doesn't apply to real self defense as it is advertised to do in every TKD school around. That statement is inflammatory and flawed in its premise.

If you said that TKD kicks were not applicable within a specific fighting event - Freestyle wrestling as apposed to UFC, I would agree wholeheartedly.

 

[fissure]

Yiliquan1, I wrote my previous post before you last posted. Things are happening too fast!
Was you last post directed at me? The tone would suggest not ( way less accusing than the last!).

 

[Matt Stone]

Fissure -

No, not at all... If I intend something to be aimed at a specific person, I am more than comfortable with setting my sights on center of mass and squeezing off a round...

My comments were generalized (hence the "we" in them, as opposed to "you"). I am just as guilty of trying to goad Judo-kid and others into a response I want... I work for attorneys for a living, what can I say?

I think that Judo-kid could be redeemed if we approach him properly and get him the "intervention" he needs to open his eyes to the world around him.

Now if I could just get him to either email me or show up to our training one Saturday...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[fissure]

Sorry, I thought that

You may well be on the money, but I don't think Judo-kid would be forthcoming with such an epiphany...

was directed at someone inparticular.

I think that Judo-kid could be redeemed if we approach him properly and get him the "intervention" he needs to open his eyes to the world around him.

Indeed. My - "you may be a MAist already, even if you don't want to be" theory, was intended as such. I mistakenly thought it was a good angle to approach him from, instead of the "when I was your age......" one.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by fissure
Sorry, I thought that "You may well be on the money, but I don't think Judo-kid would be forthcoming with such an epiphany..." was directed at someone in particular.

I think someone else made a similar point... I would review the thread if I had time.

Bottom line, and I say this because when I was someone else long, long ago, it is how I probably would have reacted... When I was younger, I was much worse at admitting my faults and failings than I am now... I credit my wife with teaching how to deal with that. Her, and years of facing the worst parts of myself and getting tired of making excuses for them.

Indeed. My - "you may be a MAist already, even if you don't want to be" theory, was intended as such. I mistakenly thought it was a good angle to approach him from, instead of the "when I was your age......" one.

I don't think either tack is working... I think Judo-kid simply needs a one-on-one, up close and personal, hands-on come to Jesus meeting... When he throws his half hearted "sparring" technique and sees no response, then throws a full hearted technique and gets stomped, he will learn. When he tries to go to the ground with someone that has no interest in going there and isn't about to "allow" it, he will realize that there is more to purposefully placing yourself into a vulnerable position than many grapplers who believe groundfighting is the end all method believe...

Gambarimasu.
:asian: