Terrible Situation
- Thread starter Bob White
- Start date
We have 4 children, so child molesters would be about our worst enemy.... but if you check the original source site you will see a very hot debate going on, with people contending they know this teacher and no way is he guilty.
Before we condemn him on this forum, let's see what the police and prosecutors turn up. Recall that the last time we had a debate about instructor abuse, the woman was found not guilty.
The only thing worse than not hanging a molester is hanging somebody who turns out not to be a molester.
Before we condemn him on this forum, let's see what the police and prosecutors turn up. Recall that the last time we had a debate about instructor abuse, the woman was found not guilty.
The only thing worse than not hanging a molester is hanging somebody who turns out not to be a molester.
That's a huge red flag for me. The list of instructors I'd send young kids of mine away with for a private lesson is very, very short. I'm sure most are professional..but then, professional instructors know better than to create awkward and suspicious situations like this in the first place.
I just commented last week that I would not allow my children to be at any facility that would not allow a viewing area for the parents.[/quote]
No way. Certainly the distraction factor must be kept down by the instructor, but it's just common sense to me. Set up a live video feed in a different room if need be--I've seen a dance studio do that, and watched my daughter at dance class via the TV (which had audio as well). That was acceptable to me.
14 Kempo
Grandmaster
Here are some other links I found related to this story, some are simply the same story picked up by another publication, yet others are fresh stories ...
ABC
CBS
Daily Pilot
Los Angeles Times
... I'm just provifing links that I have found related to stories regarding this situation. As some have stated, the person can not be condemned without a proper investigation and trial.
ABC
CBS
Daily Pilot
Los Angeles Times
... I'm just provifing links that I have found related to stories regarding this situation. As some have stated, the person can not be condemned without a proper investigation and trial.
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
Hi folks!
Dear Mr. White,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention and please give my best to Mr. Sanchez. I miss hearing from "themindset"!
It is stories like this that always make me teach my students in private with their parent/s watching. I inform them up front it is because I never want them to have the smallest doubt of any impropriety with any student under the age of 18. I require them to attend each class and if they cannot attend said class, then I open the door to my studio so that people can walk by and see the class. I preface that by telling the student that this iseing done for their safety and benefit.
In today's "day and age", 'i've seen people destroyed by the "court of public opinion' as well as seeing people being guilty of such crimes and having served time and still serving time for their crimes. I have also seen instructors get railroaded by our legal system and have their lives destroyed by that same system after they have served said time. there are no simple black and white answers. So it is all the more important that we,as instructors, strive to be above board in our actions and insure/assure both our students and parents that we provide a safe atmosphere for all our students.
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
Danjo
Master Black Belt
I'm not condemning him without a trial. I'm just buying the rope and picking out the tree.
marlon
Master Black Belt
14 Kempo
Grandmaster
Nothing wrong with being prepared ...
It is truly a horrible situation. I won't comment further on th eneed for a school to have open access for parents to observe and monitor training.
However, I will say that avoiding this stuff is impossible. A few years ago, we had a parent at our school convicted (currently in jail) of molestation. It seems he even tried to molest a couple of the students as well.
something like that can really tear a place up. All I can say is be vigilant...trust that gut instinct that tells you something or someone ain't right.
Peace,
Erik
However, I will say that avoiding this stuff is impossible. A few years ago, we had a parent at our school convicted (currently in jail) of molestation. It seems he even tried to molest a couple of the students as well.
something like that can really tear a place up. All I can say is be vigilant...trust that gut instinct that tells you something or someone ain't right.
Peace,
Erik
SL4Drew
Green Belt
I don't completely agree. You can take steps to make it extremely unlikely (or practically impossible if you'd like). Sexual predators are looking for vulnerable kids in vulnerable situations. If you insist on at least two adults present at all times, keep the school owner the sole authority for scheduling, run good background checks for instructors, and maintain an "open viewing" of the class, then the chances of such things happening in the school are quite small. (Having two unrelated adults around at all times will take care of most of it.) And of course another good idea is to teach a child safety unit as part of your kids program.
The other thing worth pointing out is sometimes the accused is not the one that actually did the molesting. Sometimes the kid is scared of the real molester and "cries out for help" by truthfully reporting they are the victim of abuse but re-characterize the abuser as another party for a variety of reasons (usually without ill intention on the part of the kid).
Whenever I did any sort of adult training in this area, I always recommended guarding yourself against the accusation. One, because it may happen even if you did nothing yourself. Two, and more importantly, it prevents a lazy mindset. You trust yourself not to do anything bad to the kid, so you aren't mindful of the hidden dangers you've left around for bad people to exploit. But if you think in terms of avoiding even the accusation, you tend to be more vigilant in your thinking and thus provide a safer environment for the kid.
http://www.blinkx.com/video/2nd-karate-teacher-accused-of-molesting-student/Za2mOIdhKJ8XXwf-ZrHrhg
and this time he is from irvine 1.
and this time he is from irvine 1.
The instructors at my school have proven the test of time. Many of our instructors started with me as children. If the desire was to get bigger with more schools it would be impossible to maintain quality control much less know the character of each instructor. Many chain school systems put more emphasis on extracting money from their students than developing quality instruction. With the desire to grow and have more schools you run the risk of putting unqualified people in positions of trust. This is a black eye for the karate world and a tragic event for the victims, their families, and the students.
I feel that being a karate instructor is a privilege and a position that has to be earned. Unfortunately, when money takes first priority over the quality of that which you teach, many things suffer.
I would be interested in finding out what most instructors believe is our primary purpose in teaching. Is it teaching self defense, character development, fitness, etc? Is it a quest for financial security, fame, power, feeding of your ego, etc?
In my personal experience of over 40 years of teaching I have found that priorities change. Things that used to be of great importance now are no longer on the top of the list. If the desire is to be the best instructor you can be, then it makes sense to be excited about the growth you will experience as a teacher. Like it or not, you are an example of something. Do you want to be a role model, or a model of a roll? Do you go out and use alcohol and drugs and then tell your students to abstain? Do you express to your students to show self control and then use profanity like you are out on the streets?
With the recent molestation charges here in Orange County it drives home the fact that as instructors we are in a position to influence people around us. What kind of influence to we want to have on our students? Working with the Royal Family Kids Camps I have had the opportunity to see what abuse can do to children. I also have seen what good loving people can do to help erase the scars of tragic events. I encourage us all to take our responsibilities seriously and remember that whatever we do there will be rewards or punishment for our actions.
Respectfully,
Bob White
I feel that being a karate instructor is a privilege and a position that has to be earned. Unfortunately, when money takes first priority over the quality of that which you teach, many things suffer.
I would be interested in finding out what most instructors believe is our primary purpose in teaching. Is it teaching self defense, character development, fitness, etc? Is it a quest for financial security, fame, power, feeding of your ego, etc?
In my personal experience of over 40 years of teaching I have found that priorities change. Things that used to be of great importance now are no longer on the top of the list. If the desire is to be the best instructor you can be, then it makes sense to be excited about the growth you will experience as a teacher. Like it or not, you are an example of something. Do you want to be a role model, or a model of a roll? Do you go out and use alcohol and drugs and then tell your students to abstain? Do you express to your students to show self control and then use profanity like you are out on the streets?
With the recent molestation charges here in Orange County it drives home the fact that as instructors we are in a position to influence people around us. What kind of influence to we want to have on our students? Working with the Royal Family Kids Camps I have had the opportunity to see what abuse can do to children. I also have seen what good loving people can do to help erase the scars of tragic events. I encourage us all to take our responsibilities seriously and remember that whatever we do there will be rewards or punishment for our actions.
Respectfully,
Bob White
Danjo
Master Black Belt
I guess I would have to distinguish between teaching adults or children (under 21). With those under 21, I would not let them see me drink; with those over 21, I might have a drink with them depending on the circumstance. I'm not a teetotaler, and I have no problem distiguishing between age appropriate behaviors. I also don't think it's wrong to tell kids that they can't do something because they're kids and that there's different rules for adults.
However, certain things are going to be important to embody and teach regardless of age: Loyalty, honor, respect, politeness, self control, good sportsmanship, toughness (mental and physical) etc. and you want to make sure that you model those qualities to whomever you teach.
If you want to maintain that quality in your black belts, then you only promote those that you've come to know well through training them. That's why cross-ranking and quickie promotions are bad. If you give someone a black belt, you're telling the world that this represents you to a certain extent. There are ways to test these qualities over the years that you train someone. That's why those groups that test 50 people for black belt at a time are lacking something in my opinion. It makes it seem like an assembly line. You're really just rolling the dice and hoping that they turn out ok.
Right now, I just assist my instructor when he teaches large classes that have beginners that need to be seperated off from the main group, and have no actual students of my own, but that too is a big learning process. The idea that people just get put right in to running their own school is losing something. I remember an instructor of mine that I was under in a huge organization. Her teacher was more like her employer than her mentor, There was certainly none of the family feeling that there is in Kajukenbo. Every time she got on the phone with him it was always "Hello Sir! Yes sir, I have those figures right here! Two sign-ups today sir!" etc. Total lack of the personal involvement. It's no wonder that someone could get away with molesting kids in an envorionment like that. Not the kind of place I want to be in.
14 Kempo
Grandmaster
Another one ... this one is said to be an 'ex-instructor' ...
http://kfiam640.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=5047541
... on another forum, it was stated that this guy was the instructor at a Long Beach location in the recent past, but has since left the organization, reason not given.
At any rate, as stated in previous posts, this is not good for the martial arts community as a whole!
http://kfiam640.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=5047541
... on another forum, it was stated that this guy was the instructor at a Long Beach location in the recent past, but has since left the organization, reason not given.
At any rate, as stated in previous posts, this is not good for the martial arts community as a whole!
Aikicomp
Purple Belt
Absolutely correct in that. Very unfair and unjustified IMO. Although when something reprehensible like this happens (no matter if it is a cop, priest, minister, lawyer, ect.) the knee jerk response is to attack all in that particular group. These individuals (not saying he is guilty or not) destroy peoples lives forever and the victims never really recover from the violation.
Prayers sent for all involved in this situation.
Michael
With no standard for certification, no governing body to which all are responsible and no policing body for examining infraction this is the normal expected type of problem which should not only be anticipated, but be expected.
Moral and ethical behavior can be generally agreed upon, but would be impossible to actually enforce without some kind of oversight and a clear code of conduct all are held equally to and bound by.
I do not believe that the vast majority of martial arts organizations would tolerate or survive being examined for the very types of problems this thread outlines in detail.
Qualification to teach is very different between systems, even closely related systems. Codes of conduct are also greatly different between organizations.
And each and every organization is a privately owned business or series of interlinked businesses competing with all of the other similiar businesses out there.
The possibility for abuse of an oversight organization to benefit one business by harming others is fearful enough for any person to simply not wish it to exist.
Moral and ethical behavior can be generally agreed upon, but would be impossible to actually enforce without some kind of oversight and a clear code of conduct all are held equally to and bound by.
I do not believe that the vast majority of martial arts organizations would tolerate or survive being examined for the very types of problems this thread outlines in detail.
Qualification to teach is very different between systems, even closely related systems. Codes of conduct are also greatly different between organizations.
And each and every organization is a privately owned business or series of interlinked businesses competing with all of the other similiar businesses out there.
The possibility for abuse of an oversight organization to benefit one business by harming others is fearful enough for any person to simply not wish it to exist.
Believe me, a lot of instructors are up in arms over this. I run the Mill Creek, WA USSD. All I will say is that right now things are... tense.
ninjatruth
White Belt
maybe you guys should do background checks on all instructors starting with ussd masters. I'm sure no ussd master has never been arrested for assault.
Any Masters or instructors jump ship yet?
