I agree with everything that foxmc had to say, as well as Waco.
Let me clarify a few additional points, as well as offer some defense of individuals and systems. Up front let me say that none of this is intended as an attack, but rather as something to make people think before they act, and also to simply fill in some of the missing pieces.
First of all let me clarify some things about Grand Master McDonald. GM McDonald did not invent nor has he ever claimed to invent Tong Il Lo. Rather, he, along with Tong Il Lo's co founder, the late Gilbert Narvaez, combined their years of experience and knowledge of several traditional martial arts systems to form Tong Il Lo. Tong Il Lo represents techniques from ITF Tae Kwon Do, Chinese Kenpo, Aikido, Danzai Jujitsu, and Muai Thai. The two gentlemen identified the strongest elements from each of these systems and blended the techniques into the unified self-defense centered system of Tong Il Lo.
Tong Il Lo started out with no name as a system, but rather as the self-defense part of the curriculum for the Hot Shots Self Defense and Safety Awareness Program, which was inducted into the Texas Martial Arts Hall of Fame as Youth Development Program of the Year. Over time, the techniques evolved into what is now Tong Il Lo. Tong Il Lo has never been nor is it now stagnant, but rather continues to evolve. Like all young arts, and GM MCDonald is the first to say that Tong Il Lo is a young art, it is continually evaluated and improved upon. The entire group of instructors under GM McDonald has been working for almost 3 years to produce the soon to be released 3rd edition of the curriculum book, and it probably won't be the last.
I understand that all are entitled to their opinion, but don't you owe it to yourself to gather ALL of the relevant facts before forming an opinion?
I personally have been involved with Tong Il Lo for over 9 years, and am the hightest ranked black belt under Grand Master William McDonald. In Addition to teaching for the System, I have served as Texas State Director, Youth Development Coordinator, and now currently serve as physical consultant, meaning that I apply my kinesiology degree and my years as an athletic trainer and certified personal trainer as one of the many measures of techniques that we drag each technique through before adopting it. As far as the youth development part, I have over 17 years proffessional experience in various phases of youth development outside of martial arts including YMCA, municipal recreation (which included extensive gang prevention and intervention), and i am a 40 Assets youth development trainer, as well as a Certified Court Appointed Mediator. I previously have a background in Danzai Jujitsu, under the late Gilbert Narvaez, Mizu Wa Ki Jujitsu, under Sensei David Earnest, Tae Kwon Do under David Edwards, and American Karate under Grand Master Richard Morris, plus wrestling in college, as well as numerous seminars, training camps, and specialty training, totalling 2 months short of 21 years experience in martial arts.
I have also worked professionally as head of security, including training duties, for 2 night clubs, as well as security for 2 others, and have worked as a bodyguard. This part of my career as a martial artist totaled just over 6 years, and due to keeping up with incident logs, I can tell you that I have broken up over 400 altercations, including one's involving beer bottles, pool sticks, bar stools, and in one instance a knife.
I mention all of this this to let you know that I have had opportunity to actually apply the theories extensively in regards to both technique and youth development! I also completed 17 hours in the education department in addition to all of the sprts and developmental physical education pedagogy courses required for my degree. I have no intention of tooting my own horn, but since you don't seem to bother to find ALL the facts before forming opinions, I have presented them for myself rather than be the victim of incomplete opinion forming, based on conjecture.
Next point. You say that your friend(s) have never heard of William McDonald nor Tong Il Lo? This only goes to prove 1 thing, and its not your fault. Many martial artists who are trained in one school are exposed only to groups and instructors who are affiliated with them or associates. This proves nothing, and I will prove that!
The question was posed "what is American Street Karate? Check out Grand Master Passmore's website and you will find your answers. He maintains a very well designed, highly informative website that describe his class offerings. In addition to his many years experience, including instructing military and law enforcement personnel, GM Passmore is the President of the Texas Martial Arts Hall of Fame. And before you go saying that you haven't heard of that, let me name a few of the inductees such as Pat Burleson, Allen Steen, Roy Kurban, Won Park, Jhoon Rhee, Troy Dorsey, the Machado's, Chuck Norris, and I could go on for pages naming elite martial artists who have been inducted at the ceremonies over the past few years.
To further prove this point, you asked about American Karate? I'm sorry, but are you really that out of touch with the martial arts world in the US? The founder of American Karate was GM Allen Steen who with GM Pat Burleson took their training in Tae Kwon Do (which incidentally these men were among the first TKD Black Belts in the US under GM Jhoon Rhee). Their training (though I don't know the exact sequence of events) evolved into American Karate. The AKBBA which is one of the largest and oldest governing bodies in American martial arts is at the top of this system. If you run the roster of high Dan American Karate stylists, you will quickly run into a gammit of names you or your friend(s) have heard of and know as the greats.
Now, I've told you about Tong Il Lo and 2 other systems, and GM Passmore, let me tell you about my friend and Grand Master, William McDonald. If my tone gets a little defensive on this part I apologize, but you have insulted someone that you are not in a position to insult!!!!!!!!!!!!
When Grand Master McDonald and Gilbert Narvaez designed the curriculum that evolved into Tong Il Lo, GM McDonald held respectively- a black belt in tracey kenpo, with additional training in the Parker kenpo system, with certified instructor status- a 3rd dan in WTF Tae Kwon Do, again certified instructor,
a 4th dan in ITF Tae Kwon Do, certified Master Instructor, and among his instructors in the ITF, let it be known that he had the honor and privledge to train directly with General Choi Hong Hi- Instructor level in Muai Thai, Master Level in Kobudo (weapons), as well as additional training Hapkido. By that time GM McDonald had served as a hand to hand instructor for the US Army and for law enforcement agencies.
Grand Master McDonald Has highly extensive experience in night club security as has worked as a bodyguard, in including VIP assignments. At the time Mister Gilbert Narvaez held dan ranking in Danzai Jujitsu and Aikijitsu as well as high ranking in Hun Gar, and 5 Animal Kung Fu.. Both founders have extensive competition backgrounds as well.
With the early background in place, let me state this. GM McDonald never and I mean never claimed any title nor rank that he did not duly earn through years of hard work and qualified testing. For the first 8.5 years of Tong Il Lo he claimed, as he does today, to be the co-founder of the system. When he founded Tong Il Lo, when people asked his rank, he said that he founded this system, but he only claimed his 4th dan (highest at that time) as his belt rank. He was later duly tested and promoted to 6th dan in Tae Kwon Do by Grand Master Butch Alish Tasen.
Under the recommendation of several 9th dan, Korean Tae Kwon Do Masters,
including Grand Master Sin Il Choi, a former personal bodyguard of General Choi, GM MCDonald dissolved Hot Shots, and Survivors(the adult program) and after already 5 years of evolution, finally named the system (see foxmc post for those details). So in his usual humble, and unassuming fashion, GM McDonald began to rapidly absorb and utilize the recommendations and input of these esteemed grand masters as well as those of high dans in other systems such as Shihan Dean Chapman, GM Anthony Sandoval (oh in case you and your friends haven't heard of him he holds GM status in 7 traditional martial arts as well as master and dan rankings in numerous systems, and was trained in Okinawa by some of the most elite names in martial arts history, and oh by the way, was the second highest decorated Marine to emerge from the Vietnam War). My point is that GM McDonald not only accepted, but asked for input and advice from those martial artists whom he respected.
It should also be noted that Grand Master McDonald has over 32 years experience in martial arts, and has trined continuously since age 7.
A few years ago, GM McDonald rekindled his friendship with Grandmaster Pat Burleson and began making even more changes. He also consulted his long time acquaintance, Bill Wallace (do ya know who he is?) GM Wallace put GM McDonald in touch with Professor Marty Kale. After a time, GM Wallace, GM Kale and several others began to strongly push GM McDonald to prepare a test that would provide for official recognition for his system, and if he passed his exam would finally officially award him high dan status for Tong Il Lo.
A little over a year ago, GM McDonald with several of his students and instructors, at the US Martial Arts Hall of Fame event, presented his skills and Tong Il Lo before the test board of the
International Martial Arts Council of America, which is headed by Professor Marty Kale.
He did not request to test for a particular rank, but rather left it to the board to decide what rank he deserved. The test board consisted of Professor Marty Kale, Dr. Dan Netherland, GM Frank Corbo, GM John Rubiano, GM Russel McCarty, GM Mark Shuey, GM TR Crimi, and Professor Wayne Carman and GM Butch Alish Tasen. This esteemed board awarded him official recognition of the Tong Il Lo system, and awarded him 10th degree Soke rank in Tong Il Lo.
So, as you can see, GM McDonald and Tong Il Lo did not rise as a result of just another "wanna be" deciding to make up something, give it a name, and call himself Grand Master. Additionally it should be noted that GM McDonald has been twice inducted into the Texas Martial Arts Hall of Fame as Master of the Year, and has been inducted into the US Martial Arts Hall of Fame twice as Master of the Year. This year, Tong Il Lo was inducted into the hall of fame as outstanding new system in the United States.
So now I ask you, whoever you are, and I ask your friend whoever he or she is, who are you and what have you accomplished in comparison to Soke, Grand Master William McDonald? And how dare you play off American Street Karate, and especially American Karate? I think that you need to get out there more, and find out what is actually out there, rather than limiting yourself to a narrow scope.
Again I apologize for the strong and at times sarcastic tone of the previous section, but I was offended by your lack of research before you made the statements that you did! The Grand Masters mentioned are far to humble men to hit back so hard, so out of my deep respect for all of them I rush to their defense!
Let me address one more issue. The 12 year old black belt (who you claimed was 7). You say that's how it appeared to you? again I say you need to research a little more before you publicly attack someone, especially a child who is an over-acheiver in martial arts, school, and in life. Had you been a little more observant for facts, rather than fuel for attack, you might have noticed that his father is under 5'0" tall and that might have been your first clue. Had you been observant, or as GM Passmore suggested, bothered to ask someone, you would have discovered that unlike the Adult black belts in Tong Il Lo, who have gold writing on their belts, this student has silver on his, which signifies Junior Black Belt. This is intentionally intended to acknowledge that the child is under age to be a black belt, but that they have attained the skill required to pass the same test as any adult black belt. Can he defend against a 250 lb man? No (but could wreak havoc on his groin!) but why should a child not be allowed at least a modified recognition for having acheived the same as his adult counterparts. So it is stated, no one in Tong Il Lo receives a full black belt under age 16, and before you bash that, check around and you will find that many traditional systems use that same cut off.
This young man has exceptional skill and is able to independantly lead and control a classroom including adult students. I also want to know where you get your definition of black belt? In Tong Il Lo, and in most legitimate systems, the 1st dan, while certainly an acheivement and rite of passage, simply signifies that the wearer is now a good student; that they have mastered the very basics well enough to create the foundation for what will become the building. And in case your wondering, the average time to get a black belt in Tong Il Lo has proven to be around 6-6.5 years, and to my knowledge, no one has ever acheived white to black in Tong Il Lo in under 5 years.
Let me further state this- There has never been a dan rank awarded in Tong Il Lo that has not included outside Guest board members. Before the ranks are awarded, the full board must, in writing, endorse the rank. GM Pat Burleson, GM Butch Alish, and GM Passmore, are just a few examples of the esteemed people who have sat on dan tests for Tong Il Lo. Grand Master McDonald intentionally adopted this policy from the beginning, so that outside Grand Masters could help to set the standards by which Tong Il Lo Black Belts are judged. And let me tell you that at all levels, including dan levels, that people have failed tests, including failing on the recommendation of outside guests! I personally had my 2nd dan probated initially, not because I failed any portion of my test (in fact all test board members said it was one of the better 2nd dan tests they'd ever seen), but because, 3 hrs into my 4.5 hour test (and yes I was testing alone), when I was put on the mat for nearly 30 minutes of various random full speed attacks, which I successfully defended against, I did not use a high enough percentage of specific Tong Il Lo techniques in that part of the test. Being exhausted, and having spent time throwing up everything but my toes, and battling my asthma, I reverted to techniques that I had used for years and successfully defended. But the point was made and I agreed 100% that I was testing in Tong Il Lo, and therefore even when exhausted, Tong Il Lo needed to be reflected more during random attacks. This is an example of the kind of standards that Tong Il Lo keeps! Incidentally, my 4 on 1 was intense enough that I sustained a back injury, and at the end, I was so on instinct, that one of my partners had to drive me onto the mat yelling we're done, and then I sat up and passed out! Oh and after that I had to still perform board and concrete breaks and then stand motionless and endure a 2 minute beating with a shinai, to demonstrate body conditioning. This is Tong Il Lo my friend! On my 1st dan test, I chipped a bone in my hand and in sparring I had my cup broken. This is Tong Il Lo!
You ask about the breaks- I beleive foxmc has elaborated on this, but understand that in Tong Il Lo that the breaks go far beyond what many people have ever seen. As stated in foxmc's post, no, of course you don't fight boards or bricks, but they make a reasonably consistent measuring stick for improvement in power, speed, technique, and explosive energy. I have seen the video of GM McDonald on his 3rd dan ITF test, and back then at 6'0" he only weighed about 160, and broke 12 boards with a jump spinning back kick. That should say something about what, nearly 20 years later, he could do to someone's ribcage or knee with that kick.
I would suggest that my ability to break 3 concrete slabs with my head would probably indicate that the average nose would break if I smash it with my head. (Incidentally, when I met GM McDonald, though I had 12 years under my belt, he took me from a lead leg side kick of 3 boards, to one of 5 in 6 months.) See my point? That showed a marked improvement in my technique, which is now at 8 going on 9. And guess what? When the stops are down and its time to tangle, I am by nature a grappler, more than a kicker or even a puncher. But, if I do incorporate a strike, I do so with a strike that has repeatedly been used to penetrate solid material. That is what breaking has to do with self-defense!
As far as flying techniques, they improve explosiveness, timing, and balance, and force a person to isolate the technique quickly at the end of the arial portion. What do flying kicks have to do in self defense? Simple, 1 they develop those things I mentioned, and 2 they can be utilized as finish off or in certain situations as surprise techniques if timed properly.
Now, I don't know all of the ins and outs of Tin Jin Do, but as for your questioning one rank defeating another. Chuck Norris pointed out in his mid-eighties book "The Secret of My Inner Strength", he entered a judo competition as a brown belt and was defeated in the grand championship by a white belt. You really need to open your mind if you think that rank is the total determiner of who can beat who sparring. There are many people who are not good sparring competitors, but who when you go no holds barred could wax the floor with some great sparring people. Also how do you explain the likes of Tank Abbott of UFC fame. He swept through a number of highly skilled martial artists, and he was just a plain ol' tough SOB in the early couple of competitions, though to his credit, he got even tougher by developing more formal skills. I guarantee you that some of the guys that come out of prison gangs could eat the luch of some very high ranking black belts. To quote Nearly verbatim, my good friend, and mentor, Master Chris Martin, "Most martial arts instructors are teaching average people to have a combative edge against average attackers. Most of those intstructors wouldn't stand a chance against a K-1 fighter, or other professional hard core fighter. In reality, this is because most instructors are not able to devote 6-8 hours every day for years in gruelling training. No, most of them have to work jobs other than just teaching.
Next Point. Your comment about "mini classes. Many old school, well established instructors are either teaching exclusively in rec centers (the overhead is much lower) or supplement a studio with them. Tong Il Lo students are not limited to 1-2 days per week. Some beginners may choose such, but as they progress most of our students choose to attend more than one location so that they can train 3-6 days per week, and if they wish have exposure to more than one instructor, maximizing the chance that they will master each concept, by having it presented from slightly different perspectives.
Now, this ties into the beauty, and the real spirit of Tong Il Lo. All students go through the same training for 1st dan, and in the process are able to discover what best fits their bodies. This allows them to specialize more as they go through dan ranks. This unity approach allows it to be more effective to a larger percentage of people by catering to a variety of physical make-ups.
Again I apologize for the tone of this. I mean no offense, but I do mean to steadfastly defend those whom I have defended, and I felt that if I didn't shoot from the heart that my response would be less than steadfast.
My hope is simply that it will get the original poster to think about what they have done and to perhaps take the time to find out things before they attack people with far less than full information. I could construe that as slander, since you publicly named someone!
One last thing. Someone questioned on this or the other relevant post, GM Passmore's requirements, as possibly being discriminatory against non-Christians. First of all he is not teaching for the government, and therefore has no legal obligation to seperate religion from his program. Secondly, he named examples of why, and in that sense yes he is discriminating. He is discriminating against those who would seek to use deadly skills to improve the efficiency of their violent and abusive ways. I hope GM Passmore will always discriminate against people such as these, and will show full bias for those women and children who need an extra edge against those who would harm them.
On a more personal note, I am a Christian, and I admire the fact that GM Passmore has incorporated his faith into his teachings. If you read up on him you will discover that his personal walk with Jesus Christ is one of inspiration. I have certainly been inspired by what this true man of God hs accomplished through his relationship with Christ.
Peace to all, and may we work toward undertanding and acceptance, rather than pointless bickering.
