Tell us about your home gym....

[JowGaWolf]

which muscle isn´t worked or working to stabilize your torso?

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This is just one example of what Kung Fu wang was talking about as "body unification" . When he says "isolation" he's talking more about when like what you get when working on one of the machines that target one area. The example that you show actually targets more than what's highlighted in red. That is very different than this

Do this same exercise standing up and more muscles will be engaged. Bend your legs slightly and even more muscles are engaged. To this while walking and even more are engaged. Do it while walking in a hilly area and everything gets worked. When I was a teen I stopped doing squats and started cycling. Cycling developed my legs faster than and to a greater extent than doing squats. Cycle required my legs to be engaged more often. I could use push and pull mechanics and I could shift how may legs were being worked out by slightly shifting my position on my seat. The best thing I like about it is that my arms were being worked out as well.

I think the main issue for people who lift weights is based on the purpose. Are they lifting weights to shape their body or are they lifting weights to be functional. I used to lift weights to shape my body but now I just want to be functional. There's not "much body" sculpting going on. I'm not trying to create a specific look. My muscles and the shape of my body will be what it is. I'm not actively trying to get a specific idea look.

When we get older muscle function is going to be more important than having that idea body look.

 

[Alan0354]

I'm with you on this one even though people are seeming to make jokes of it. When I'm at the gym there are machines that specifically show which muscles it's dedicated to working out and they are specifically built to work a particular muscles. Doing bicep curls on this machine is not the same as doing bicep curls standing. It's also not the same as doing bicep holds while moving through the footwork of a martial art form. It is not the same as doing bicep curls while walking.

I still use these machines but I dedicated more time to "body unification" than I do muscle group isolation. 60% of my time is dedicated to that. I spend more time doing this than I do on a bicep curl machine. My who thing about working out is that I want to work out more than one group of muscles at arm. If I'm working out my arms then I want my core and my legs to get a good work out at the same time while.

I'm not completely against muscle group isolation. I have exercises that are specifically done because I need to isolate a specific area.

If I have to choose Bicep Curls on a machine or the ropes then I'm definitely only doing the ropes. Bicep curls with dumbbells gives me the ability to add to it. Bicep Curls on a machine and I'm just locked into that one position.

That's why we do NOT use those machines. Free weight as much as possible. Machines are ONE DIMENSIONAL exercise. Free weights need to be balance which work all the muscles around it. I am surprised the elastic bands are better than machine, like in bench press, you need to balance using elastic band, not just pushing up. Particular if I push upwards or downwards like incline and decline press, I can feel I need to balance it.

I am actually against muscle isolation. Only thing I miss is the STRETCH position using elastic band because it's very light at the beginning position. It only get hard from middle to peak contraction. That's what I miss using free weights.

I do have dumbbells, so that's not an issue. For biceps, I do use dumbbells, so as tricep kickback, all dumbbells.

Weight training is not as complicate as MA, but it's BY NO MEANS simply just push. One need to LEARN. I watched a lot of videos(not those Youtube stuffs today, I actually paid for those video tapes) and learn from it. It's a completely different game, not to be taken lightly getting on a machine and just do.

As for me, I am at the age that it really doesn't matter. I'm not going to be a body builder anymore, so I don't have the urge to go to the gym and do it right. Been there, done that. I started losing muscle starting around 64, very noticeable. I lost 1" from my arms even I work just as hard since. There are more to life than just workout.

 

[Alan0354]

which muscle isn´t worked or working to stabilize your torso?

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I so wish I can do this. I can't, my back won't allow me. I can only do with 2 dumbbells of 40lbs each. That's it, and it's already pushing it.

 

[Jimmythebull]

I so wish I can do this. I can't, my back won't allow me. I can only do with 2 dumbbells of 40lbs each. That's it, and it's already pushing it.

I still do Romanian Deadlifts. I also like partial deads in a rack.

 

[Alan0354]

I'm with you on this one even though people are seeming to make jokes of it.

You have to admit it's very close to those kung fu movies on training. It's quite out there.

 

[Jimmythebull]

working on one of the machines that target one area.

Read my post again about muscles working. You cannot isolate muscles even with Machines.

Cycling developed my legs faster than and to a greater extent than doing squats

Then you've never squatted with any real intensity over any length of time. Sorry but that's the truth. Infact you sound like you've never squatted at all in a real gym .

Do this same exercise standing up and more muscles will be engaged. Bend your legs slightly and even more muscles are engaged. To this while walking and even more are engaged.

Sorry but you're missing my point about antagonistic muscle groups working. Talking about curling while walking up hills is just stupidity. I will explain again, if I contract a bicep regardless of my body position..the antagonistic muscle will lengthen. It's how our body works. No muscle can work in isolation. Machines or no Machines. Also the whole muscle group will work ..not the inner or outer heads..it all works together. Regardless if it's "quad"s or "tri"ceps.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am surprised the elastic bands are better than machine, like in bench press, you need to balance using elastic band, not just pushing up.

The resistant bands are awesome. I wish I started using them a lot sooner, I would have used them when I was teaching kung fu. It was a missed opportunity for me. Hopefully, I'll be able to make use of them in a teaching environment. Maybe my MMA partner will be my next student.

Only thing I miss is the STRETCH position using elastic band because it's very light at the beginning position. It only get hard from middle to peak contraction.

To solve this you have to shorten the band (not by cutting it) by stepping on the so that less of it is actually stretching. So when you do your curls use two feet to step on the band and widen your feet as necessary. The beginning will still be easier than the peak but it will increase the beginning for you. I like that that the beginning and end are not as difficult, that way when I work my arms to failure, it helps me to ease into and out of the movement. But I understand what you are talking about it's a down side but it just takes a little adjustment.

I so wish I can do this. I can't, my back won't allow me. I can only do with 2 dumbbells of 40lbs each. That's it, and it's already pushing it.

Same here. I don't do those at all because of my back. The closest I get to that is lifting a 15lb medicine ball. I do back exercises, just not that one one. Maybe I'll be able to do it when my core gets strong enough to correct my anterior pelvic tilt and when I lose more of my gut.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am actually against muscle isolation. Only thing I miss is the STRETCH position using elastic band because it's very light at the beginning position.

The elastic band is very good for "body unification".

When you use weight pully this way, you are doing "muscle group isolation".

When you use weight pulley to do this, you are doing "body unification".

 

[Jimmythebull]

Look at the thighs of a Sprinter

When you use weight pully this way, you are doing "muscle group isolation".

No you can't isolate any muscle.
Look at the Routines of sprinters. What do you see.. ok we can then argue about Red & white muscle fibres...etc

 

[JowGaWolf]

You have to admit it's very close to those kung fu movies on training. It's quite out there.

Yeah it's close to it, but some of those ways are really good. They won't make your body look awesome but they will make the muscle strong. Much of it is designed to strengthen the tendons and ligaments as well. This doesn't happen much in modern weight lifting, which is why you see so many professional athletes tear tendons and ligaments. They don't do the exercises that help strengthen them, and as a result they have weak tendons and ligaments that can't support their powerful muscles.

Some of the traditional exercises are dangerous and I don't do those, especially the way my back is these days. I have to do what is safe for me in my current condition. The Kung Fu movies and martial arts movies warped the reality of Martial Arts to the extent where there's some really stupid stuff out there.

 

[Jimmythebull]

This doesn't happen much in modern weight lifting, which is why you see so many professional athletes tear tendons and ligaments

You're talking about another animal here. It's not the training but the drug use & an intensity level far beyond any traditional chinese kung fu training. You're correct in that you wrote the tendons in some cases are weaker & It's mostly due to rapid increases of training poundages. This is mainly due to steroids. A natural Trainer in most cases simply can't increase training poundages, recover so quickly or train so often at such an intensity.
I myself have never juiced but I know people who do. Martial artists included.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Some of the traditional exercises are dangerous and I don't do those, especially the way my back is these days.

The amount of weight can make a big difference. If you try to swing a double heads that's over 60 lb, you are asking for trouble.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Plyometrics are also useful. Used in many sports and definitely build power & speed.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You're talking about another animal here. It's not the training but the drug use & an intensity level far beyond any traditional chinese kung fu training. You're correct in that you wrote the tendons in some cases are weaker & It's mostly due to rapid increases of training poundages. This is mainly due to steroids. A natural Trainer in most cases simply can't increase training poundages, recover so quickly or train so often at such an intensity.
I myself have never juiced but I know people who do. Martial artists included.

Never?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is good training too.

 

[Jimmythebull]

A bit of a read but well explained

CURRENT CONCEPTS OF PLYOMETRIC EXERCISE - PMC

As knowledge regarding rehabilitation science continues to increase, exercise programs following musculoskeletal athletic injury continue to evolve. Rehabilitation programs have drastically changed, especially in the terminal phases of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Jimmythebull]

Never?

Juiced? No never but I'm not against it nor do I judge people who do.
It's a Personal decision you make.

 

[Alan0354]

Plyometrics are also useful. Used in many sports and definitely build power & speed.

Now, these are good exercise for explosive power. Just I am too damn old for that. The pushup clapping I can do. It's my back is the limitation.

 

[Alan0354]

Yeah it's close to it, but some of those ways are really good. They won't make your body look awesome but they will make the muscle strong. Much of it is designed to strengthen the tendons and ligaments as well. This doesn't happen much in modern weight lifting, which is why you see so many professional athletes tear tendons and ligaments. They don't do the exercises that help strengthen them, and as a result they have weak tendons and ligaments that can't support their powerful muscles.

Some of the traditional exercises are dangerous and I don't do those, especially the way my back is these days. I have to do what is safe for me in my current condition. The Kung Fu movies and martial arts movies warped the reality of Martial Arts to the extent where there's some really stupid stuff out there.

Actually I for one benefited from modern weight lifting for injury recovery and prevention. I said it many times already I was really disabled in the 80s, it's the weight training that brought me back so far that I can do as much as I can today. I use weights to fix all my injuries and build up to prevent injuries. That's why I've been doing it for over 30 years and a strong advogate of this. Nothing like those fancy stuffs.

There is a fine line between creative vs catching fish to practice Eagle Craw. The rope exercise you showed is proven to be useful, it's not out there. A lot of your stuffs you showed was not out there. I even tried and found it useful to get me restarted.

Stuffs shown in post #93 by Jimmythebull are very very useful if you are young and in competition, not those in #95 unless you want to join Ninja Warrior or Gladiators tv shows!!! Those acrobatic stuffs take a long time to practice AND are absolutely USELESS for self defense or making you a better fighter. One be much better off practice how to fight. You see those competitors in Gladiators show got beat up by the Gladiators? To do those TRICKS, you have to be small and light. Yes, you can show off, but you face someone that is strong, as soon as the strong guy get a hand on the flying guy, he literally goes flying!!! Seen this so many times in the Gladiator show. You might as well try catching fish in the pond!!!!

The faster way to go from A to B is a straight line. Some like to take a scenic drive instead. Some actually got lost in the scenic drive enjoying too much on the scenery and lost their way.

 

[MetalBoar]

Yeah it's close to it, but some of those ways are really good. They won't make your body look awesome but they will make the muscle strong. Much of it is designed to strengthen the tendons and ligaments as well. This doesn't happen much in modern weight lifting, which is why you see so many professional athletes tear tendons and ligaments. They don't do the exercises that help strengthen them, and as a result they have weak tendons and ligaments that can't support their powerful muscles.

Some of the traditional exercises are dangerous and I don't do those, especially the way my back is these days. I have to do what is safe for me in my current condition. The Kung Fu movies and martial arts movies warped the reality of Martial Arts to the extent where there's some really stupid stuff out there.

This just isn't how the body works, barring genetic defects, pre-existing injuries or other unusual external factors. Stimulus, rest and nutrition that lead to muscular development also stimulate the body to strengthen the associated connective tissues. It's a musculotendonous unit, you aren't going to stimulate just part of it. This is largely true of bones as well, though there appears to be contradictory evidence as to whether or not low weight resistance training provides sufficient stimulus to increase bone density, it is pretty well established that lifting weights in the neighborhood of >=85% of 1RM will do so (regardless of mode of resistance training - machine, free weights, whatever).

If people are tearing tendons and ligaments with more frequency these days (I've not seen particular evidence of such), then I'd argue strongly that they must also be suffering from muscular tears at a similarly more frequent rate. This may be possible, and you still hear about the connective tissue tears a lot more, as tearing a tendon tends to be a bit more serious than tearing a muscle and that's what people are going to talk about. If this sort of injury (muscle and tendon tears) is happening more often, I'd argue that it's either because we've developed a sub-culture of fanaticism about fitness and there are a lot more people over training, or some form of exercise has become popularized that's much higher force, or is not aligned with proper muscle and joint function (and thus improper form is to blame, not strength imbalance between muscle and connective tissue), or people are skipping warmups for some reason, or some combination there of.

There was definitely a time when at least a minority of Cross Fitters had the attitude of "Just do the work, as fast, as hard and as long as you can - don't let concerns about form (or Uncle Rhabdo!) get in the way!" Plyometrics, while effective, also place a lot more shock on the body than many other forms of strength training. There may be other examples that I'm less familiar with.