Technique and Character distinguishment of Shuri, Naha, and Tomari Systems

[chinto]

shobayashi shorin ryu is about 70% tamari te. you can see it in the kata and stances. the naihanchi stance used in shobayashi is tamari and done diferently then the in kobayashi or matsumura seito. naha te became shorei ryu and later called goju ryu, shuri te of matsumura was taken over by Itosu and became shorin ryu and much of the tamari te linige was absorbed by shorin lines. master kyan was trained by bushi matsumura and Itosu but also by matsomora who was a tamari te practioner. if you see for instance the passai of shobayashi and the passai of kobayashi or matsumura seito you will see the differneces instantly.

 

[Ray B]

Shimabukuro Zenryo of the Seibukan Shorin Ryu Karate Association knows
at least two Passai. Tomari no Passai and Passai Gwa, otherwise known as
Koryu Passai. Tomari no Passai is also practiced by Matsubayashi-ryu.

I have played with Matsubayashi players as well as Shobayashi. My
background is in Kobayashi or Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu. I have found
little difference in the three as taught in Okinawa.

Karate is an amalgum of arts. Practitioners took what they knew and
added to their base. Matsumura was 4th Dan Jigen-ryu as well as
what he learned in China and from Sakugawa. The only reason there are
different Ryuha is because there were followers who were bias towards
their teacher and segregated themselves from other Ryuha.

The difference in systems was specific to the practioner. One may be
tall, short, fast or could take a punch better. Kyan was fast and agile
where as Chibana was heftier and could take a hit. Motobu liked
to get up in your face. Their karate reflects these differences.

Peace.

 

[chinto]

Shimabukuro Zenryo of the Seibukan Shorin Ryu Karate Association knows
at least two Passai. Tomari no Passai and Passai Gwa, otherwise known as
Koryu Passai. Tomari no Passai is also practiced by Matsubayashi-ryu.

I have played with Matsubayashi players as well as Shobayashi. My
background is in Kobayashi or Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu. I have found
little difference in the three as taught in Okinawa.

Karate is an amalgum of arts. Practitioners took what they knew and
added to their base. Matsumura was 4th Dan Jigen-ryu as well as
what he learned in China and from Sakugawa. The only reason there are
different Ryuha is because there were followers who were bias towards
their teacher and segregated themselves from other Ryuha.

The difference in systems was specific to the practioner. One may be
tall, short, fast or could take a punch better. Kyan was fast and agile
where as Chibana was heftier and could take a hit. Motobu liked
to get up in your face. Their karate reflects these differences.

Peace.

yes and no, in that yes there was loyalty to their teachers, but also there was the fact that to study was illegal and the punishmants were usualy draconian in nature under the shoganate for violations of laws as i understand it. so you would tend to keep the fact that you were studeing karate secret and they did it at night and behind closed doors or hiden in places like among the tombs out of sight. there were also cultural factors such as the fact that an instructor would have been and should still be to a point at least considerd responsible for what and when they teach a student. remember that all martial arts, especialy the older ones are predicated on life and death combat. it was not a sport then, and depending on the situation and how you are trained not one now. when men fight then or now some one often dies. ( I'm not talking sport bouts, but men fighting for real on the street or defending their familys.) so there was also the fact that the person who studied in say 1860 did not want the fact he studied known becouse of law, but also becouse of the fact if he needed it , suprise as to what he did know was a weapon too.

 

[Ray B]

I agree with some of your point but as for training in secret, at least
in part, no. Matsumura trained Itosu around the time you mention. They
were Palace Administrators. They could practice anytime they wanted.
What you say may be true of peasant arts (no disrespect intended) but
Motobu and Kyan had access to many teachers and their exploits
are well known.

Everyone knew of Matsumura and Itosu's abilities in Okinawa.

By the time Itosu trained Funakoshi and Chibana, Tode was not
so secretive. Both instuctors opened public dojos. IMO, karate did
not become so seperated until after it arrived on the mainland and
became "Japanised". It was then, training with other teachers became
taboo.

This is in regards to Shorin derived schools only.