Y
Yossarian75
Guest
If Soo Do means knife hand and Tang means China then should it not be China/Chinese Knife Hand as opposed to Knife Hand Way/Way Of The Knifehand?
Tang Soo Do or Soo Bahk Do?
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
K
Knifehand
Guest
Personally, i like the way you handle things, sir. The Soo Do Kong Kyuck is one of my favorite motions, a long with Phakeso Sang Dan Soo Do Kong Kyuck and Ha Dan Soo Do Mahk Kee.upnorthkyosa said:
I was thinking about it earlier today. The "Tang" mentioned in Tang Soo Do, is in respect to the Tang Method (which is chinese) but, then that raises the question, why does my style teach it was Art of The Knifehand?
tsdclaflin
Green Belt
Supposedly "tang" connects us historically to the Chinese "Tang" Dynasty. Martial Artists are always try to convince us students that the style dates back for thousands of years and at the same time the style is relavent for today. We can't really have it both ways, can we?
Tang So Do is barely 50 years old and I'm okay with that.
Tang So Do is barely 50 years old and I'm okay with that.
K
Knifehand
Guest
Tang Soo Do traces it linage back a ways. The modern Tang Soo Do is about 50 years old. but that was when principles and technique merged into Tang Soo Do, but it is taught in the traditional style (thats key). The Principles and techniques that were merged date back thousands of years from all over korea and china. The traditional style is relevant for today because Tang Soo Do is just about self defense, its about self-development and self-awareness. It is an External and Internal Martial Art.tsdclaflin said:
G
Galvatron
Guest
shesulsa said:
All I see is two people with a differing opinion on something, arguing their points. At no point in the heated debate has either myself or Knifehand taken to personal attacks on each other (atleast nothing that I've interpreted as one).
Are you attempting to convey to me that in this forum, two people are not allowed to disagree about something, and get a little vocal about it?
I see no need for moderation in this thread, atleast not until it devolves into "SCREW YOU! WANNA FIGHT?? YOU'RE AN IDIOT!"
If you have a problem with a moderator, please feel free to report your issue to the senior moderators, super moderators or administration. You can use the RTM feature if you wish.
G
Galvatron
Guest
Thanks for the overly-generic, canned response.
G
Galvatron
Guest
Yossarian75 said:
It looks like it could mean that, but you have to take into account the pronounciation. In Korean a word can have a totally different meaning, depending on how each syllable is stressed. Example being that "Soo Bahk" means "hand strike" (or something to that effect), but "Soobak" (spoken as one word) means "Watermelon". I've heard accounts of native Korean speakers getting a kick out out people saying they study "Soobahkdo" (Way of the watermelon).
"Knifehand" would be pronounced as "Soodo".
"Hand Way" would be pronounced as "Soo Do".
If you wrote them both in Korean they'd be written the same way, it's all in how you stress the syllables.
They say that Korean is one of the most upfront and "logical" languages, based on it's phonetic alphabet, but it's got just as many 'quirks' as any other language.
I wish Kodanjaclay would chime in on this thread, his knowledge of how it all breaks down in Korean runs circles around mine.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #69
Galvatron said:
Yeah, me too. I don't know what happened to him, but if you check his old posts they say he is a banned user????????
I'll chime in here for a moment...apologies for going off-topic.
Moderator Warnings:
Moderator warnings are are placed in-thread in a usually generic manner when we believe there is cause for concern. The great majority of those warnings are from standard templates that we use. After over 4 years of running this site, we have also developed "canned" responses to many of the replies as well. We use these canned responses to maintain a professional enviroment and a consistant response across all of our staff. As Georgia indicated, if you have an issue with a moderator directive, please use the Report to Moderator feature. This will generate a help-desk ticket for our staff to review, as well as email it to the administrators.
When a warning is issued, it may not be for the post immediately before it. Depending on the activity of the thread, it may be several posts back that set the "spider senses tingling". The intent if to cause a 'pause' and calm things down. Specific issues are dealt with directly via email or PM by administrators and supermods if the generic nudges fail to sooth the issues.
Debating moderator notes in-thread is not the best way to achieve results. It further derails things. If you have concerns, report the thread. You can also post a thread in the support forum and point it at the thread you are refering to.
Kodanjaclay
Master Clay was banned due to his involvement in situation revolving around Mr. Richard Hackworth, also banned. There are many ways to resolve a dispute, and as my grandmother always said "Asking Nice is better than stomping your feet.".
Moderator Warnings:
Moderator warnings are are placed in-thread in a usually generic manner when we believe there is cause for concern. The great majority of those warnings are from standard templates that we use. After over 4 years of running this site, we have also developed "canned" responses to many of the replies as well. We use these canned responses to maintain a professional enviroment and a consistant response across all of our staff. As Georgia indicated, if you have an issue with a moderator directive, please use the Report to Moderator feature. This will generate a help-desk ticket for our staff to review, as well as email it to the administrators.
When a warning is issued, it may not be for the post immediately before it. Depending on the activity of the thread, it may be several posts back that set the "spider senses tingling". The intent if to cause a 'pause' and calm things down. Specific issues are dealt with directly via email or PM by administrators and supermods if the generic nudges fail to sooth the issues.
Debating moderator notes in-thread is not the best way to achieve results. It further derails things. If you have concerns, report the thread. You can also post a thread in the support forum and point it at the thread you are refering to.
Kodanjaclay
Master Clay was banned due to his involvement in situation revolving around Mr. Richard Hackworth, also banned. There are many ways to resolve a dispute, and as my grandmother always said "Asking Nice is better than stomping your feet.".
Y
Yossarian75
Guest
Thanks for clearing that up, ive been wondering about that for some time. Lol ive heard about the watermelon thing too. Think about how quirky English is, silent letters, different words that sound the same etc. I imagine it can be quite hard to learn as a second language.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #72
Kaith Rustaz said:
I did a search on the names involved and read about KMA politics for an hour. I can honestly say that I would have learned more about my art practicing my hyung for that hour....
What, may I ask, is exactly your point?upnorthkyosa said:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #74
shesulsa said:
Trying to figure out the politics involved in the organizations that represent your art is pointless. Who cares about die amgrossestenschlongenspiel anyway? I hate to see people I have (had) a lot of respect for behave like children, throwing challenges out like this is some sort of fantasy land with no consequences. I think we'd all be better MAists if we stopped typing page after page of vitriol for one reason or another and got back in the mats.
upnorthkyosa
ps - this thread need not have been political. It is possible to talk about diversity in an art without grinding axes.
K
Knifehand
Guest
::Bows Deeply:: Tang Soo!upnorthkyosa said:
A
Andy Cap
Guest
So, we are still arguing this point about tang Soo Do?
If you were to go the route that Hwang Kee used the name Tang Soo Do to mean "Way ofhte China Hand" - you would be correct. You would also be correct if you were to say he used Tang Soo Do to mean "Karate" In Hwang
Kee's first book he explains this in pretty clear English.
He also explains that he did not invent Tang Soo Do. He spoke of evolution and development. What he was teaching at the time was the best he knew and had seen at that time. It is an empty handed art, and was taught that way by Hwang Kee because according to him - "It is the purest way to learn"
I strongly recommend getting a copy of his book "Soo Bahk Do Tang Soo Do" Yes, that is the title and has been the title since 1968.
Moo Duk Kwan was simply the name of Hwang Kee's school in Korea, and as the school developed and expanded down the rail line, the students all still identified themselves with Moo Duk Kwan which was the first school.
So, if you ask Soo Bahk Do or Tang Soo Do? You may have a hard time because some people are both. I study Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan which is a direct decendant of Hwang Kee's first school, therefore, my Tang Soo Do is Soo Bahk Do. Just as when I study Tae Kwan Do Moo Duk Kwan. If you say you decend from Moo Duk Kwan, you are saying your art has strong ties to Soo Bahk Do because that was what Hwang Kee taught.
This isn't my opinion, this is what is written in hwang Kee;s book and has ben substantiated by numerous articles and quite a few venerable masters.
One more disclaimer - although I say Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk kwan comes from Hwang Kee originally, I am not saying all Tae Kwon Do is Moo Duk Kwan. Quite to the contrary. There were 5 kwans that melded into Tae Kwon Do. Moo Duk Kwan was just the predominant.
If you were to go the route that Hwang Kee used the name Tang Soo Do to mean "Way ofhte China Hand" - you would be correct. You would also be correct if you were to say he used Tang Soo Do to mean "Karate" In Hwang
Kee's first book he explains this in pretty clear English.
He also explains that he did not invent Tang Soo Do. He spoke of evolution and development. What he was teaching at the time was the best he knew and had seen at that time. It is an empty handed art, and was taught that way by Hwang Kee because according to him - "It is the purest way to learn"
I strongly recommend getting a copy of his book "Soo Bahk Do Tang Soo Do" Yes, that is the title and has been the title since 1968.
Moo Duk Kwan was simply the name of Hwang Kee's school in Korea, and as the school developed and expanded down the rail line, the students all still identified themselves with Moo Duk Kwan which was the first school.
So, if you ask Soo Bahk Do or Tang Soo Do? You may have a hard time because some people are both. I study Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan which is a direct decendant of Hwang Kee's first school, therefore, my Tang Soo Do is Soo Bahk Do. Just as when I study Tae Kwan Do Moo Duk Kwan. If you say you decend from Moo Duk Kwan, you are saying your art has strong ties to Soo Bahk Do because that was what Hwang Kee taught.
This isn't my opinion, this is what is written in hwang Kee;s book and has ben substantiated by numerous articles and quite a few venerable masters.
One more disclaimer - although I say Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk kwan comes from Hwang Kee originally, I am not saying all Tae Kwon Do is Moo Duk Kwan. Quite to the contrary. There were 5 kwans that melded into Tae Kwon Do. Moo Duk Kwan was just the predominant.
Shaolinwind
2nd Black Belt
Until recently I never heard of Hwang Kee. Our student handbook only mentions the ancient history of the art and the history of our Choong Jae Nim.upnorthkyosa said:
Pale Rider
Green Belt
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Messages
- 174
- Reaction score
- 3
GM Hwang Kee was the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do but in which he changed the name of his system to Soo Bahk Do. There are other kwans that were out there even before he started his, but the majority of TSD still falls under the tutoralage of GM Kee. Even tho other TSD stylist out there have branched off - they still have roots that stem from GM Kee's MDKTSD.
Shaolinwind
2nd Black Belt
Actually, since I posted I found that the Choong Ja Nim of our school studied under him. Pretty neet!Pale Rider said:
My Grandmaster studied under GM Hwang Kee, at the point of cutting ties he was chief instructor for Europe and Pacific region, I belive that he was the highest ranking student serving under GM Hwang Kee and therefore should have become Grandmaster but things didn't pan out like that hence the split. I've also found reference to him being president of the MDK in the 60s in Korea.
