Taking leg kicks

[Jagermeister]

Damian, I believe you are right. I suppose that I should've clarified something. In a fight, you continue through pain and injuries, but in training, that's different. There's no one to psyche out there. You say that the pros in Thailand can eat a few full kicks to the torso without blinking. I believe you. I remember Silva continuing in his bout against CroCop after a single kick to the body broke some ribs and he didn't really show that he was in pain. But can they do that routinely (not suffer broken ribs, but take kicks to the body) during their training sessions? And it sounded like AJ takes more than just a few when he trains on this. As mentioned before, despite the tough facade, behind the scenes after these fights, sometimes the fighters can barely walk. So I just don't understand how AJ, and I think he knows there's no disrespect in my comments here, can take these on a routine basis with no injuries, unless his partner just can't kick very hard. It seems like the risk vs. reward relationship is severely out of balance.

And I'd like to thank you for the replies on the leg kick question. It sounds like the general consensus is that drilling hard on receiving leg kicks is not a very popular training method.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Actually the contact in training for the pros in Thailand is VERY light. Even a light bruise is unwanted as it could interfere with their income (fighting for a living). Of course when they fight its full out trying to kill eachother, but they are getting paid for that, albeit not much by our standards.

Westerners go way harder in North America during their training than the toughest Thai fighters in Thailand. This is partly due to Westerners believing in the mystique of the martial arts and buying into the whole "training in Asia must be insane so we have to train hard too!" and partly due to the machismo involved in men and the martial arts in North America. But the main factor is Westerners dont usually fight..... I mean amateur or pro full contact ring bouts, so they spar really hard and do other hard training and conditioning.

Now I will agree with you that Adrenaline is most likely not taking 100% power shots from a serious heavy hitter for conditioning training. He probably knows this.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

but my mid-section conditioning, I'm simply having a guy throw full speed round kicks into my stomach and sides.

I don't get offended easily, so no disrespect taken. But it does look like somebody's trumping up the terminology a little. Is the dude throwing the kicks trying to kill me? No. If you got that notion from the above statement. . .then, I don't know what to tell you. The thing I find most amusing is that nobody jumped all over the dude said he could rupture my internal organs, lol! Again, it's progressive, I don't go from zero to full-speed in 1/2 a second. I do three sets: Thai pads, light, then full. Every now and again I tell them actually throw one as hard as they can, just to see if I can take it. It's not an outrageous clam; more of a misinterpretation on your part. Also, I'm not standing there like a brick wall; I break and absorb, the same way I would were I to have to take one in a fight. Now, is full speed sparring in the gym the same as a ring bout? Pose the question to yourself. The answer is no.

There are PLENTY of times I don't go full-speed on conditioning, and plenty of times that conditioning is much more of a cool-down drill than anything else. . .particularly as the guys I train with get better and start working me harder during sparring. Nevertheless, I want to fight at some of Fairtex's events, so I want to be uber-confident. There is a psychological aspect to the drill--at least, I find that there is--in that you get used to having someone stand in front of you, knowing they are going to kick you, and forcing yourself to take it. Thus, personally, I try and push myself every workout. I have bruised shins, skinned knuckles, a silver-dollar sized purple spot on the inside of my knee; where you got this notion of no injuries, I have no idea. But I enjoy every minute of it. I go through so much tiger balm that I should buy stock in it. If I get hurt, I take some time off, or go easy where my injury is, no big deal.

The original point I was trying to make is that with a progressive workout, the intent of which is to do a little bit more every time, you can reach a point where you can both physically and psychologically reconcile, with yourself, the unavoidable fact that, when you fight, you will get hit. Go back and read; I still cringe when I have to take leg kicks. We go pads, we go soft, in an attempt to eventually reach a point where I will not cringe if I have to take a leg kick. I have never trained in Thailand. I wouldn't expect the Pro/Pro-Ams to train this way, because, as I previously noted they can't afford to take a week off. I, however, pay for private lessons and train on my own with friends that share my interest in fighting in various smokers. . .not exactly obligatory.

I'll try and grab some video, if'n that'll make ya happy. In fact, I might have some video of some of the two-man drills, where you can clearly see, we are going quite easy and get progressively harder, until we hit our limit. Personally, I don't see how the concept is different from that of maxing out while lifting weights; I want to know my limit, and push it. Does that make me invincible? No. Could I take one of your kicks? Well, unfortunately for me, I'm just dumb enough to try.

 

[Jagermeister]

Does that make me invincible? No. Could I take one of your kicks? Well, unfortunately for me, I'm just dumb enough to try.

Lol. Thanks, Junky. I think we're on the same page now. Really, I was just worried about ya.

If you've got some video, post it. That would be pretty cool. As far as I'm concerned, the more, the better.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Lol. Thanks, Junky. I think we're on the same page now. Really, I was just worried about ya.

If you've got some video, post it. That would be pretty cool. As far as I'm concerned, the more, the better.

I'll check. Every now and then I remember to bring the camera, and, actually remember to have someone use it. Now, I just hope I don't look retarded; suppose I should have thought about that before offering up video, huh? LOL.

 

[Muay Thai Knee]

I'll be honest. I'm not a little guy. I'm 6'1" and weigh 217lbs. When you said you were taking full kicks in the stomach I had a vision of one of my kicks hitting me and thought "No way mate that is gonna really hurt".

My Kru once said that when they have deaths in the ring in Thailand it is mainly due to knees to the torso, and that this is why the Thai judges give more points for knees that connect. They are supposed to be the most devastating moves you can do.

Your second post makes a lot more sense to me now though.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I'll be honest. I'm not a little guy. I'm 6'1" and weigh 217lbs. When you said you were taking full kicks in the stomach I had a vision of one of my kicks hitting me and thought "No way mate that is gonna really hurt".

My Kru once said that when they have deaths in the ring in Thailand it is mainly due to knees to the torso, and that this is why the Thai judges give more points for knees that connect. They are supposed to be the most devastating moves you can do.

Your second post makes a lot more sense to me now though.

Don't let yourself fall prey to the common misconception that there is a be-all-end-all strike. I've worked for years as a bouncer; gone at it with people of all sizes. It was my job to win; someone paid me, not to see how well I faired in a fight, but to win. The human body, if properly conditioned (which is what my goal is--not saying that I am), is capable of surviving all kinds of punishment. I doubt, with a degree of certainty, that you would do anything more than "smart" me with any, one, strike; hell, even with two, or three. Now, if you are pro, then I'd reconsider, simply because of the ratio of time trained; but if you train roughly the same amount of time I do, then the aforementioned speculation still stands. I've never been knocked out in two or three punches (maybe knocked down), and I've never KO'ed anyone in the same manner. I just think that people get in trouble when overestimating their ability.

 

[Damian Mavis]

eh, its the lucky/unlucky shot that will take you out. Either you are breathing in at the wrong moment or he just nails you right on the spot that is weak (a pressure point or knockout point). Thai fighters are freakishly tough, but they still go down when that one lucky shot hits their temple/jaw or they catch a massive knee to the torso at the wrong time. One shot can get you, but its never seemed easy, more like lucky.

In my fight here I hit my opponent MANY times, I hurt myself hitting HIM so much, he was tough but was slow and had bad defence. I finally dropped him with a jumping spinning sidekick to his ribs, the kicked worked beautifully but mostly due to bad timing for him, he just missed the shield and was not tensed when I hit him and my foot sank 3 inches into his guts.... ew. Weird sensation for me. He lay on the canvas for 10 minutes twitching, I felt really bad at first but he was up and walking around and smiling 20 minutes later.

Anyway, point is, you cant discount the lucky shot. Ive seen the toughest pros go down in one lucky shot.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

eh, its the lucky/unlucky shot that will take you out. Either you are breathing in at the wrong moment or he just nails you right on the spot that is weak (a pressure point or knockout point). Thai fighters are freakishly tough, but they still go down when that one lucky shot hits their temple/jaw or they catch a massive knee to the torso at the wrong time. One shot can get you, but its never seemed easy, more like lucky.

In my fight here I hit my opponent MANY times, I hurt myself hitting HIM so much, he was tough but was slow and had bad defence. I finally dropped him with a jumping spinning sidekick to his ribs, the kicked worked beautifully but mostly due to bad timing for him, he just missed the shield and was not tensed when I hit him and my foot sank 3 inches into his guts.... ew. Weird sensation for me. He lay on the canvas for 10 minutes twitching, I felt really bad at first but he was up and walking around and smiling 20 minutes later.

Anyway, point is, you cant discount the lucky shot. Ive seen the toughest pros go down in one lucky shot.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Lol, no doubt. I got nailed in the hip, right on the top, and my lower-body went numb. I started freaking out; though I was paralyzed, or something. After a couple of minutes, I realized that it was simply the "right spot." I absolutely agree with your statement. Nevetheless, people are strange, in that they tend do discount the attributes the human body inherently carries, while over-relying upon, many times, absurd notions of what can be accomplished. I went head-on with a bronco at 120-130 mph, on my motorcycle, bounced off the top, hit the pavement, slid about 100 feet down the road. The only injury I sustained was that of my riding buddy behind me, running over my leg with his bike. From the SUV. . .no injury, whatsoever. . .barely bruised. Racing leathers rule!

 

[Damian Mavis]

Damn, I thought my motor scooter accident was impressive...... I was only going 60 and collided with another scooter (in Pattaya Thailand, craziest place on earth) and a spilt second before I hit I remember thinking like I had all the time in the world... "ok, Im going to lower my left shoulder and go over the handle bars head first, tuck and roll when I hit the ground.." and thats exactly what I did! I rolled and came up in fighting stance! Im lucky I didnt yell out a KIA! haha. Gymnastics and kungfu finally came in handy for something other than stunts in movies. All I had was a bad bone bruise on my left knee and elbow. The Thai cops and bar girl hookers just stood there laughing at us. Made sure the other dude was ok, twisted the front wheel of my bike back into place and went on my way.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[SAVAGE]

Golden Bell/Iron shirt! We train it and trade kicks to inside and outside thighs...I agree that it never stops the pain it conditions your mind to absorb the pain...that is my$0.02.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Golden Bell/Iron shirt! We train it and trade kicks to inside and outside thighs...I agree that it never stops the pain it conditions your mind to absorb the pain...that is my$0.02.

Does Hapkido have Shin kicks?

 

[SAVAGE]

No....the hapkido I learn has four basic lower kicks..it is all stand up grappling, trapping, locking/throwing and ground work (there are heavy Yudo elements...Yudo is the Korean version of Judo).

The hapkidoist I see on line and in the west study alot of different stuff like TKD with alot of Joint Locking...I study with the military, I am not now nor have I ever been a soldier but I was lucky enough to train with military instructors, mainly because he is my cousin!

The Golden Bell I train in..I do at Goju Ryu Karate....I dont believe long term kicking with the shins is a good I dea with the high incidence of bone cancer, artiritis and nerve damage I intend on being fit to fight for a long time and I dont believe shin kicking is the way to ensure that.

This is my belief but having been kicked by a MT practitioner that stuff hurts like crazy man.

 

[Jagermeister]

It's been almost 2 weeks since OP. My left leg is still really tender. I think it's really deeply bruised or something. The lightest contact causes some pain in it still. For example, when I'm stretching, if I even just roll over on the quadricep wrong, just my body weight alone is enough to cause some pain. Anybody experience this long of a recovery after taking too many shots to the leg?

 

[Damian Mavis]

Yup, I got one kick in the thigh where I couldnt walk for a couple of days and was limping for 2 weeks after that. It was a deep hit, he penetrated my muscle fairly deep. Your pain will subside, it will heal, but it sucks in the meantime. Work on your shield!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

It's been almost 2 weeks since OP. My left leg is still really tender. I think it's really deeply bruised or something. The lightest contact causes some pain in it still. For example, when I'm stretching, if I even just roll over on the quadricep wrong, just my body weight alone is enough to cause some pain. Anybody experience this long of a recovery after taking too many shots to the leg?

Yeah, man, my Kru nailed me in the shin once and it took about a month to heal. I nailed Chad in the knee yesterday. . .that one hurt. I had to walk it if for about five minutes. But hey, after that. . .well, actually I went back to sparring and did the same thing. . .same spot. . .felt dumb. So then, finally, after railing my shin twice and almost crying like a school girl each time, I. . .actually sparred again. Got Chad back that time, though.

Came home and iced it up, took some tylenol, ate, went to bed around five in the afternoon. . .woke up this morning, felt great. I was surprised because I smashed it in the same spot where Mano kicked me, and that one took forever to heal. It's solid right now; I could go a few rounds with guards on, no problem. My leg muscles always have a much quicker recovery time than my shins.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Oh wait. . .that's from an operation? Missed that part. I was down for a while after my operation. . .two or three months. And then really mindful for about 7-8 months after that.

 

[Jagermeister]

No I meant "OP" as in "original post." It's getting better, but I'm still not taking kicks to the left leg in sparring.

 

[Odin]

Yeah, man, my Kru nailed me in the shin once and it took about a month to heal. I nailed Chad in the knee yesterday. . .that one hurt. I had to walk it if for about five minutes. But hey, after that. . .well, actually I went back to sparring and did the same thing. . .same spot. . .felt dumb. So then, finally, after railing my shin twice and almost crying like a school girl each time, I. . ..

lol you know how many times I've done that!Iv been smacked on the shin then got angry because it hurt and kicked out in frustration only to hit the same spot!lol....if done that 4 times in a row once before i thought screw this!

 

[Ric Flair]

What ever happens to a Muay Thai fighter once he hits old age (say 60-70 years old), is he still able to walk, run, jog?!!!?!?!?

What about a Muay Thai fighter in general, would his/her health be in great shape or would they be having people push them in wheel chairs all day and feeding them hand to mouth???????