There was some controversy on this article over on Kenponet. Please find my respnse to this below. I am not a Systema student and would appreciate your responses. I like honest, I'll survive brutal comments.
"Russian Systema Flow training"
Journal of Asian Martial Arts Volume 13 number 4 2004
This is a remarkably well written introduction to Systema. By their very nature magazine articals are generally superficial but this article manages to present the essence of systema without the Hype. The History section is brief practical and does not make unreasonable claims. I found the sections "The science of survival" and "Understanding Combat stress" to be readable and consistant with my knowlege of the subject. "The power of the flow" presents the concept of slow training incorporating natural responses. It points out that "the old adage "practice makes perfect" is simply not true." As Mr. Parker said Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. The Systema solution (also followed by many in Kenpo) is to start slowly "in a mindful deliberate manner." What follows is a good introduction to slow training with full intent. The article ends with a discussion of the dangers of operant conditioning and combat stress. It is difficult to fully appreciate the effectiveness of this art without experiencing it but this article gives a good introduction to the philosophical basis of systema.
The pictures are another story. Unlike Kenpo, Systema does not have set techniques. Each interaction is unique and this makes taking representative pictures difficult. Allow me to respond to Mr. Robertson's questions.
"...the problem is that in this case, the pictures are very clear. And particularly in the case of the knife technique pictured last in the article, they violate very basic kenpo rules...like a) allowing a knife hand extended completely across the lower torso with absolutely no checks whatsoever, and b) completely ignoring where that knife's going to go once the attacker gets hit in the head."
Checks are in place here. In this case this is a still photo of a dynamic situation. The proximal portion of the attackers forearm is against the defenders upper arm. The Attackers momentum is forward while the defender closes the distance. The check takes advantage of the third hand principle and momentum. In order to withdraw his hand the attacker must either pull his body backwards or bend at the elbow. The defenders chest and arm prevent the ability to reflexly withdraw the arm and cut. The head shot has caused the attacker to hyperextend his neck and start to extend his back so his arm will either travel up as he falls or rotate away from the defender as the attacker rotates.
"It's particularly a problem, given that the article contains long sections discussing a) reflex moves, b) taking advantage of 'startle,' responses."
I'm sorry but I'm not sure that I understand this question.
"What's clearly being pictured, in other words, is a situation in which you will inevitably be cut, and cut bad, and cut bad on an arc that runs from your right lower quadrant, up towards your right armpit, through all the way to your left side. Included in that arc are your armpit, your chest, your face and your neck..and let me emphasize again: while this is beginning, your left arm is folded flat UNDERNEATH their knife arm, and your right hand is travelling on a big, wide, looping arc (kept at least a foot from your torso the whole time) to their left temple."
In order to cut the attacker needs to reverse his arm motion. Either he must bend his elbow which is checked off or he must reverse his momentum which is atleast partially checked by the attacker closing the distance. I agree the Right hand punch is a big looping punch but we have those in Kenpo also and with borrowed distance as the opponent closes this punch will occur fast enough. The Left arm folded flat is likely a function of the static nature of the picture and likely moved in some manner.
"No lower-case checks are pictured or described."
Yes they are but the arm is checking rather than the hand.
"In another illustration, there's a sort of seated defense, from the ground, against an attempt to kick you in the face. Now first of all, I'd like to see the person who's going to be able to make the pictured response--a sort of slapping parry with both hands to redirect the kicking foot while you're sitting up, on the ground--work against a guy I know named William. And second--as anybody in kenpo who'd worked through the orange belt endings (let alone the Purple ones) would see, why would an attacker bother kicking you in the face right away, when there are two lovely, lovely, sets of feet, ankles, legs and knees directly under their feet?"
Once again this series of pictures shows the difficulty of demonstrating dynamic movement with still photos. Much of the ground work involves using the opponents momentum and not directly opposing the attack. I believe the seated position shown is also a baiting technique to try to draw the kick to the head and torso. The system also deals with kicks to the feet, etc. I have no idea if this will work against William but that would be another topic.
I believe that there was another specific question but cannot now find it.
Ultimately I'm reminded of the joke -
"I am reminded of a story of 2 Kenpoists watching a Systema guy work.
The first Kenpoist turned to the other and proceeded to tell him how mny rules the Systema guy just broke.
The second Kenpoist responded with, "And yet it still worked.""
- Dougie
Mr. Robertson, I am neither an expert in Systema nor Kenpo. I study Kenpo as my primary art and have been very pleased with it. Kenpo works, but so does Systema and when it seems to violate our conventions and works anyway that is when I learn the most.
Respectfully,
Jeff
"Russian Systema Flow training"
Journal of Asian Martial Arts Volume 13 number 4 2004
This is a remarkably well written introduction to Systema. By their very nature magazine articals are generally superficial but this article manages to present the essence of systema without the Hype. The History section is brief practical and does not make unreasonable claims. I found the sections "The science of survival" and "Understanding Combat stress" to be readable and consistant with my knowlege of the subject. "The power of the flow" presents the concept of slow training incorporating natural responses. It points out that "the old adage "practice makes perfect" is simply not true." As Mr. Parker said Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. The Systema solution (also followed by many in Kenpo) is to start slowly "in a mindful deliberate manner." What follows is a good introduction to slow training with full intent. The article ends with a discussion of the dangers of operant conditioning and combat stress. It is difficult to fully appreciate the effectiveness of this art without experiencing it but this article gives a good introduction to the philosophical basis of systema.
The pictures are another story. Unlike Kenpo, Systema does not have set techniques. Each interaction is unique and this makes taking representative pictures difficult. Allow me to respond to Mr. Robertson's questions.
"...the problem is that in this case, the pictures are very clear. And particularly in the case of the knife technique pictured last in the article, they violate very basic kenpo rules...like a) allowing a knife hand extended completely across the lower torso with absolutely no checks whatsoever, and b) completely ignoring where that knife's going to go once the attacker gets hit in the head."
Checks are in place here. In this case this is a still photo of a dynamic situation. The proximal portion of the attackers forearm is against the defenders upper arm. The Attackers momentum is forward while the defender closes the distance. The check takes advantage of the third hand principle and momentum. In order to withdraw his hand the attacker must either pull his body backwards or bend at the elbow. The defenders chest and arm prevent the ability to reflexly withdraw the arm and cut. The head shot has caused the attacker to hyperextend his neck and start to extend his back so his arm will either travel up as he falls or rotate away from the defender as the attacker rotates.
"It's particularly a problem, given that the article contains long sections discussing a) reflex moves, b) taking advantage of 'startle,' responses."
I'm sorry but I'm not sure that I understand this question.
"What's clearly being pictured, in other words, is a situation in which you will inevitably be cut, and cut bad, and cut bad on an arc that runs from your right lower quadrant, up towards your right armpit, through all the way to your left side. Included in that arc are your armpit, your chest, your face and your neck..and let me emphasize again: while this is beginning, your left arm is folded flat UNDERNEATH their knife arm, and your right hand is travelling on a big, wide, looping arc (kept at least a foot from your torso the whole time) to their left temple."
In order to cut the attacker needs to reverse his arm motion. Either he must bend his elbow which is checked off or he must reverse his momentum which is atleast partially checked by the attacker closing the distance. I agree the Right hand punch is a big looping punch but we have those in Kenpo also and with borrowed distance as the opponent closes this punch will occur fast enough. The Left arm folded flat is likely a function of the static nature of the picture and likely moved in some manner.
"No lower-case checks are pictured or described."
Yes they are but the arm is checking rather than the hand.
"In another illustration, there's a sort of seated defense, from the ground, against an attempt to kick you in the face. Now first of all, I'd like to see the person who's going to be able to make the pictured response--a sort of slapping parry with both hands to redirect the kicking foot while you're sitting up, on the ground--work against a guy I know named William. And second--as anybody in kenpo who'd worked through the orange belt endings (let alone the Purple ones) would see, why would an attacker bother kicking you in the face right away, when there are two lovely, lovely, sets of feet, ankles, legs and knees directly under their feet?"
Once again this series of pictures shows the difficulty of demonstrating dynamic movement with still photos. Much of the ground work involves using the opponents momentum and not directly opposing the attack. I believe the seated position shown is also a baiting technique to try to draw the kick to the head and torso. The system also deals with kicks to the feet, etc. I have no idea if this will work against William but that would be another topic.
I believe that there was another specific question but cannot now find it.
Ultimately I'm reminded of the joke -
"I am reminded of a story of 2 Kenpoists watching a Systema guy work.
The first Kenpoist turned to the other and proceeded to tell him how mny rules the Systema guy just broke.
The second Kenpoist responded with, "And yet it still worked.""
- Dougie
Mr. Robertson, I am neither an expert in Systema nor Kenpo. I study Kenpo as my primary art and have been very pleased with it. Kenpo works, but so does Systema and when it seems to violate our conventions and works anyway that is when I learn the most.
Respectfully,
Jeff
