Systema, a prep

[WillFightForBeer]

First of all, I would like to say hello to everybody. It has thus far been nothing short of a pleasure talking with you all, I have learned very much from dialogue alone, and for that I am already most grateful.

I am fairly sure that many of you are familiar with my situation, my proposed summer in Boston training Systema, etc. I am putting a lot of time into these plans, and if they do not fall through, then that will be a lot of time that I will put in to my training in Systema, therefore, I would like to know exactly what I am about to immerse myself in. I have been to a few seminars thus far (Martin Wheeler, one in Roanoke, etc.) and have thouroughly enjoyed all of them. Along with my R.O.S.S. training, I feel that I have a somewhat decent base in Systema, although I am not 100% sure how much of it is correct

To make a long thread slightly shorter, my point is simple: I need to know exactly what Systema is before I make such a commitment. I am not saying I do not know what it contains or it's origins, but I am speaking of the actual training logistics. Simply put, a few questions are:

What should I prepare for?

How physically demanding is it?

Is it similar to anything else? (I have had exposure, if not formally trained in, about 10 styles, internal and external, of Kung Fu, I train Wing Chun, Kali, muay Thai, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, former trainee of McDojo TKD, etc.)

I guess it all boils down to a simple "What can I expect"...

I welcome and appreciate replies from anyone, although I would particularly be grateful for a reply from Arthur.


On a quick side note, and perhaps this is not something that I should know, but a was recently a spectator in a rather heated discussion on Bullshido about Systema, where Furtry intervened quite modestly, but said something similar to "The videos being admittedly ********". This is referring to clips from seminars and the like, not from any of Vlad's videos. While this does not bother me in the least bit because I have personally witnessed much of the feats performed in front of my very eyes, I am rather curious as to the origin of this comment, whether it was true or simply spouted to "appease the beast".

Once again, I would like to thank all of you for everything.
Thank you,
Ilya

 

[Furtry]

"On a quick side note, and perhaps this is not something that I should know, but a was recently a spectator in a rather heated discussion on Bullshido about Systema, where Furtry intervened quite modestly, but said something similar to "The videos being admittedly ********". This is referring to clips from seminars and the like, not from any of Vlad's videos. While this does not bother me in the least bit because I have personally witnessed much of the feats performed in front of my very eyes, I am rather curious as to the origin of this comment, whether it was true or simply spouted to "appease the beast"."
The comment was made by me. I said "I was the first to laugh at the clips when I saw them." I also said the clip they were referring to "does look like BS especially out of context." Lastly the demographics of the forum participants does not lend well to a mature discussion. I visit the forum for a number of reasons. One being my students are participants and it’s a good way to get a true feel of what they think and want from me and Systema. Secondly I try to keep my self current on all things Systema related.
As for talking to Arthur, post on his forum RMAforum.com

What to expect... you will egt what you put in to it. Not a cliche but the truth. The hard part will be to learn everything you know to be done in a new way.

 

[WillFightForBeer]

Haha Furtry.....I post on RMAforum as Kleyman97. Way ahead of you mate....

My question was if the videos shown were really set up, staged, fake, etc. or if they were real live footage from a seminar...

 

[Furtry]

oops!

 

[Furtry]

Haha Furtry.....I post on RMAforum as Kleyman97. Way ahead of you mate....

My question was if the videos shown were really set up, staged, fake, etc. or if they were real live footage from a seminar...

The video clips in question were not staged. They were excerpts from two seminars. As all demos in Systema we started slow so people can see what is happening. Then things got a little faster, which resulted in me being KO’ed on one occasion and teeth chipped on a second occasion. But everybody jumped on the bandwagon basing their opinion on out of context and erroneous information. It’s like deciding if the movies is good or bad strictly by the trailers/commercials.

 

[WillFightForBeer]

I see, that is what I thought. It sounded like you said that they were fake, I got kind of scared for a second there. Ahh well, I don't suppose any of them have tried out Systema yet.....

 

[Brian King]

Taken from a thread on Vladimir’s web site. Hope that Scott doesn’t mind but it seems to answer the question of what one may expect from a Systema class. Any misspellings or grammatical errors are mine and my lousy job of cut and paste. Enjoy


From Scott Meredith on a possible (never typical) Systema class: ******************************************* To get a feel for the training, please click on 'training' at the main Toronto school link: http://www.russianmartialart.com/

That gives a descriptive text for each combative training area, and shows the master teacher, Vladimir Vasiliev, at work.

A possible class as taught by Vladimir and most affiliate instructors is 1 or 2 hours long. There is no standard uniform. Usually there are some warmups such as pushups and squats, performed under varied breathing regimens. Some instructors will have the group run or walk around the training area, and maybe do some rolls to loosen up. If you don't know how to roll, a senior student will usually be designated to work with you off to the side on that.

The bulk of the class will be devoted to partnered movement training. This is done as a slow attack from one or more partners with fist, kicks, knives or anything to which you need to respond by:
(1) getting out of the path of the attack while
(2) counter-attacking and/or taking down your assailant.

Don't worry - you CAN do this, from your very first class. Just as you can, today, get out of the way of a car rushing toward you in the crosswalk. You'll learn to begin from that kind of natural survival reaction.

As there are no formal distinctions of level and rank in Systema, you may find yourself partnered with any imaginable degree of martial arts expertise or lack thereof. Your partner may be a Thai kickboxing champion, a jiujitsu black belt, a yoga instructor, a housewife, a police officer, a school teacher, or a newspaper reporter there to do a story on the art. Anything is possible, and most won't tell you their background unless you make a point of asking. But you don't need to ask, as they are in front of you (or behind, beside, underneath, or above you) for exactly two reasons - to teach you and to learn from you.

Each new "movement family" to be explored is generally introduced in three phases by the instructor. The phases are Tell, Show, and Do.

The instructor will TELL - explain verbally - the purpose of the work (which might be defense against kicks, escaping a head lock, countering a throw, or anything). The explanation will cover the principles of movement and response that the upcoming work is intended to elicit. He will then SHOW , using a senior student, a sample of inspirational moves and reactions at realtime speed. This demonstration wiill be spontaneous and is not meant to be copied by you -it is done to inspire you with the incredible range of movement and reactive potential that our robotic minds and cramped bodies might never otherwise see. The DO phase is when you try to cook up the flavor of what you saw using your own ingredients - working with your partner(s) on the given movement family.

There is an unbelievably huge and endless variety of these 'movement families' (we don't like the word "drills" very much) involving one, two, three, four or more partners, up to and including the entire class freely attacking one another. These may be conducted from any starting position including standing, squating, kneeling, sitting, and lying down (prone or supine).

Often more specialized work will be sprinkled in such as 3-person work consisting of a 'bodyguard' an 'assailant' and a 'client'. Your job as bodyguard would be to protect your client in the least obtrusive and most effective manner possible.

Sometimes special equipment will be taught such as sticks (for conditioning and combatives) as well as chains, etc. Even cavalry swords or whips are sometimes brought to bear.

There is also sometimes a segment of breath training that involves maintaining calm and controlled breath cycles, and balanced upright posture, while being struck with fist, stick, or whip. This is usually done to supplement the strikes training, which teaches you to hit effectively with fist, chest, elbow, shoulder, or palm, beginning with gentle pushes and working up to the nuclear megatonnage of Vladimir's "wave principle" strikes, using any part of his body. Supplemental work in the "strikes" family of Systema movement may include touching with a knife blade, requiring you to find the best path of evasion, and a vast family of pushing patterns, working over your entire body or body segments, all of which double as strike issuance and absorption training.

Joint locks and holds emerge naturally from the large group of partnered stretching and twisting methods. In these you may freely twist or rotate your partner's joints, or perhaps pin his foot or hand to the floor while he attempts to roll around you (and many other variations). With the joint and lock work, it can be challenging to discern where the "conditioning" work leaves off and the "combative/defensive" work begins. You'll slowly discover that all Systema conditioning work is combative, and vice versa.

Additional massage, relaxation, self-healing and other deep work is emphasized by some instructors, including the Systema master teacher Mikhail Ryabko in Moscow.

The atmosphere is uniformly supportive, tolerant, hardworking but light. You will work on each new aspect for a few minutes with a given partner, then switch roles with the same partner. Every few such segments, you will probably switch to a new partner, so that by the end of the session you may well have worked with everybody in the room. Your partners are your teachers.

The session instructor will circulate and step in to correct you from time to time. That is actually more like guidance or exemplification, as there is no standard of prettified perfect movement in Systema. Most high level Systema teachers appear very low-key during the session. They do not bellow or assert any authority. At the same time, I have noticed that they have an amazing sixth sense for any issues of safety or partner compatibility, such that you'll find any potential problems in those areas subtly and smoothly neutralized without your even realizing what has happened. So in general Systema is extremely safe combative training.

The class may be re-punctuated at any time by quick drops for pushups, squats, leg lifts, rolls or other breath work that clears your mind, grooms your energy and helps to develop your most relaxed power for the next movement family or training situation. But even the lowly pushups will be done with a huge degree of unpredictable variation. The instructor may have you do pushups while mirroring one or more training partners, pushups while being struck or kicked or even more bizarrely creative combinations too numerous to review here.

Each class will conclude with a discussion circle where you'll be expected to share what you experienced or learned about yourself or the system in the given session._________________- Emery

“Is it similar to anything else? (I have had exposure, if not formally trained in, about 10 styles, internal and external, of Kung Fu, I train Wing Chun, Kali, muay Thai, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, former trainee of McDojo TKD, etc.)”

People often at first see what they are familiar with. We often hear comments that it is just like Aikido, Kung Fu, Wrestling and Judo or insert whatever art the person making the comment has experience in. There are of course many comments related to familiarity of certain sports and also different healing methods.

Enjoy your training.

See you on the mat
Friends
Brian King

 

[Jackal]

Ilya,

All you need to know is that if you are going to train with Arthur for an entire summer, than you are one fortunate SOB. Can you feel the seething jealousy beneath this post? :wink1:

What should I prepare for?

Don’t anticipate or prepare for anything. Accept each session as it comes with no preconceived ideas. Remember to breathe, relax and enjoy the moment.

Is it similar to anything else?

I’m going to go with…no. See previous answer. The best way to absorb Systema, in my experience, is to stop attempting to identify it by comparison. It is what it is.

Good luck and have a great time!

 

[Furtry]

I see, that is what I thought. It sounded like you said that they were fake, I got kind of scared for a second there. Ahh well, I don't suppose any of them have tried out Systema yet.....

That was the funny part, NO ONE there had even observed a class let alone try one :xtrmshock . I have allot more respect for people who base their opinion on personal experience, even if it is contradictory to mine, than sheeple who are trying to fit in to the flock.
But at the end of it all I killed allot of the negative ignorant opinions, although some people will never admit they have no knowledge what they are talking about, and got a few people out to classes across the country. I received allot of PMs asking who to contact.

 

[Arthur]

I've had a catastrophic Hard drive failure on one computer (my main one), an OS failure on another, and a netwokring issue on my our emergency laptop. So I've been unable to access the internet much. I have a bevy f outstanding emails, PM's and other wise to respond too (not to mention the missed and destroyed work), so I really need to stay brief on my compter time at the moment.

I just got the regular net access working tonight, and need to attend to the pile of emails from people who likely think I've blown them off:-( Before I get to more recent biz. However, feel free to give me a ring, if you want to discuss particulars about your Boston adventure. If you don't already have it... you can get my number from Dave. Unfortunately the listed number for me on russianmartialart.com has been wrong for 8 months now, and the new webmaster just doesn't seem as quick as the old guy :wink2:

Arthur

 

[WillFightForBeer]

Thanks Arthur!
artyon: