Systema a discussion

[Martial D]

I disagree when it comes to kicking. The front kick is the only motion of the way the human body moves naturally. I think it's a stretch to fit most other kinds of kicks into what would be considered natural movement. For the most part, anyway.

The round kick with the instep can definitely also be found in the untrained wild. Maybe not with good form, but neither is the wild variant of the straight kick

 

[Gerry Seymour]

As I stated in the post 105, the video was a bit to stylised in favour of Kali or Silat.
The difference between Systema and the list of arts you stated, tkd, hapkido etc, the repetitive training, comes in the form of grading material, you must attain a level of uniformity to achieve the grade, everyone has to execute a pre planned repitiore, as does kata, we have no grading syllabus.
We do execute drills, but the end goal is to achieve a level of movement, and be creative with it, efficient counters, and pressure test at the end of each session.

I would actually argue that while this is commonly true in those arts, it's not necessary to the art. It's part of the curriculum of a given organization, but doesn't actually define the art. The review of the pre-planned repertoire is just a manner of evaluation they choose to use.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I disagree when it comes to kicking. The front kick is the only motion of the way the human body moves naturally. I think it's a stretch to fit most other kinds of kicks into what would be considered natural movement. For the most part, anyway.

I'd argue the instep kick is more natural for most folks than the front kick....unless we use different names for those kicks, which is entirely possible. And the round kick's basic concept is pretty natural, if you stay away from the more technical bits. Side kick certainly isn't natural, nor most snap kicks, hook kicks, axe kicks.

 

[drop bear]

Many a video posted on YouTube do not do Systema justice, the previous video I posted with Dan Innosanto, stated you have to train it to undestand it, but the following video is how I see Systema, but a bit pencakish, not sure if this instructor Is Filipino inspired as the style is a little bit rigid, but this is how I see my art with a little more freedom.

Don't know if this will link.
Ian Dreadlox :) on Instagram: “Just getting a bit of air time while sparring coach @antonzafirmma haha #whoisiandreadlox #whitsundaymartialarts #airliebeach”

 

[Gweilo]

Here's the thing, I believe in my art, I wish I had the exuberance of my youth, with the experience of my years, I have offered to test my art against other martial artists, they have refused, as I am not a big enough fish, but the big fish do not want to risk their reps, I understand some of the arguments, but unless you have trained in Systema you don't know, you can say some things are not valid, or you can say it's no different from other arts in certain aspects, but until big fish are willing to step up, or people are willing to try it, or the art is allowed to show itself on the world stage, rumours and opinions are going to reign, I could spend 20 mins on the net and find substandard videos to ridicule any art on the planet, but I also understand Systema needs to prove itself on the same stage, all I can say is I am trying, if you try it and don't like it, fine, not your cup of tea, fine. Debate the art, I am up for that, it's healthy to debate, but to dismiss the art as parlour tricks, when you have not tried it, maybe that says more about yourself than your martial arts.

 

[Buka]

I'd argue the instep kick is more natural for most folks than the front kick....unless we use different names for those kicks, which is entirely possible. And the round kick's basic concept is pretty natural, if you stay away from the more technical bits. Side kick certainly isn't natural, nor most snap kicks, hook kicks, axe kicks.

How so? Are you referring to a roundhouse kick as the instep kick? Or do you mean a front kick using the instep - which is still a front kick as far as the motion of the leg goes.

A front kick is pretty much the same motion as the leg in walking.

 

[Headhunter]

Here's the thing, I believe in my art, I wish I had the exuberance of my youth, with the experience of my years, I have offered to test my art against other martial artists, they have refused, as I am not a big enough fish, but the big fish do not want to risk their reps, I understand some of the arguments, but unless you have trained in Systema you don't know, you can say some things are not valid, or you can say it's no different from other arts in certain aspects, but until big fish are willing to step up, or people are willing to try it, or the art is allowed to show itself on the world stage, rumours and opinions are going to reign, I could spend 20 mins on the net and find substandard videos to ridicule any art on the planet, but I also understand Systema needs to prove itself on the same stage, all I can say is I am trying, if you try it and don't like it, fine, not your cup of tea, fine. Debate the art, I am up for that, it's healthy to debate, but to dismiss the art as parlour tricks, when you have not tried it, maybe that says more about yourself than your martial arts.

Mate....relax. You like systema then great brilliant you keep doing what you're doing. Not everyone's going to like it and that's fine to. I don't like systema. I've checked it out and it's something I have no interest in doing and I see no upside to me doing it. That's my opinion and I'm happy to say my opinion. No one needs to step up...you fighting someone over something so petty and stupid isn't going to do anything. You and me spar and you kick my *** I'm still not going to go and train systema or change my opinions. Because systema isn't for me and it never will be I don't care if you can beat me up with it I'm not going to train something I don't like for such a childish reason.

Just do what you do and don't worry about my opinion or anyone else's opinion. Just because I don't like systema that doesn't make me a bad person or a bad martial artist. Some people prefer football, some prefer golf, some prefer tennis you don't see football players getting butt hurt because a golf player doesn't like football.

You like systema then you keep training my friend. I don't like systema and I'll continue doing what I do. My opinion has no bearing on your life just as yours has no bearing on mine.

 

[drop bear]

Here's the thing, I believe in my art, I wish I had the exuberance of my youth, with the experience of my years, I have offered to test my art against other martial artists, they have refused, as I am not a big enough fish, but the big fish do not want to risk their reps, I understand some of the arguments, but unless you have trained in Systema you don't know, you can say some things are not valid, or you can say it's no different from other arts in certain aspects, but until big fish are willing to step up, or people are willing to try it, or the art is allowed to show itself on the world stage, rumours and opinions are going to reign, I could spend 20 mins on the net and find substandard videos to ridicule any art on the planet, but I also understand Systema needs to prove itself on the same stage, all I can say is I am trying, if you try it and don't like it, fine, not your cup of tea, fine. Debate the art, I am up for that, it's healthy to debate, but to dismiss the art as parlour tricks, when you have not tried it, maybe that says more about yourself than your martial arts.

So a whole bunch of MMA promotions, BJJ comps, boxing, kickboxing just turned you down?

The other difference with the argument that Systema has these videos of silly stuff. Is if someone says my art does silly stuff I can find good videos of my school. So then I can support my training with video evidence.

And that is the argument that negates the bad videos.

This is also how everything that is considered a parlor trick is tested. I mean I am not skeptical of water dowsing or psychic powers so I go become a psychic. Nobody has time for that.

I go watch a blind test that someone has set up to see if the claims are legit.

MMA is a blind test. Because you can make a bunch of claims and then see how consistently they are represented.

 

[drop bear]

Mate....relax. You like systema then great brilliant you keep doing what you're doing. Not everyone's going to like it and that's fine to. I don't like systema. I've checked it out and it's something I have no interest in doing and I see no upside to me doing it. That's my opinion and I'm happy to say my opinion. No one needs to step up...you fighting someone over something so petty and stupid isn't going to do anything. You and me spar and you kick my *** I'm still not going to go and train systema or change my opinions. Because systema isn't for me and it never will be I don't care if you can beat me up with it I'm not going to train something I don't like for such a childish reason.

Just do what you do and don't worry about my opinion or anyone else's opinion. Just because I don't like systema that doesn't make me a bad person or a bad martial artist. Some people prefer football, some prefer golf, some prefer tennis you don't see football players getting butt hurt because a golf player doesn't like football.

You like systema then you keep training my friend. I don't like systema and I'll continue doing what I do. My opinion has no bearing on your life just as yours has no bearing on mine.

Had an interesting discussion with one of my coaches about the difference between happiness and fulfillment.

People tend to put happiness at the top of achievement. Like you do when you make these statements like any training is fine. Or that light rolling is better than competitive rolling.

But here is the scenario. You can either play the football final or go out drinking with your friends.

If you go out drinking you will be happy.

If you play the final you get beat up but win. Which is fulfillment.

The thing is it is commonly considered better to reach for fulfillment rather than happiness if you want to be successful at anything.

Striving for mediocrity.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How so? Are you referring to a roundhouse kick as the instep kick? Or do you mean a front kick using the instep - which is still a front kick as far as the motion of the leg goes.

A front kick is pretty much the same motion as the leg in walking.

Our "instep kick" is pretty much just a soccer kick (upward finish, so think of it used on someone you've grappled to a bent-over position). Our "front kick" is a thrusting kick. So it might just be a difference in terminology.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Had an interesting discussion with one of my coaches about the difference between happiness and fulfillment.

People tend to put happiness at the top of achievement. Like you do when you make these statements like any training is fine. Or that light rolling is better than competitive rolling.

But here is the scenario. You can either play the football final or go out drinking with your friends.

If you go out drinking you will be happy.

If you play the final you get beat up but win. Which is fulfillment.

The thing is it is commonly considered better to reach for fulfillment rather than happiness if you want to be successful at anything.

Striving for mediocrity.

We don't need to be the best at everything we do. I've not played in a football final in many years. If I stepped on the field now, it'd be for fun. Heck, it was for fun back when I played in finals. I was good. I worked hard to get good, because being good was fun - it made me happy to play the game with others having fun (didn't much care for the folks who forgot it was a game).

 

[drop bear]

We don't need to be the best at everything we do. I've not played in a football final in many years. If I stepped on the field now, it'd be for fun. Heck, it was for fun back when I played in finals. I was good. I worked hard to get good, because being good was fun - it made me happy to play the game with others having fun (didn't much care for the folks who forgot it was a game).

That's fine. But I think we should encourage others to succeed as much as we can. Rather than constantly encouraging people to give up.

I also think encouraging others to succeed isn't condemning anyone else's lack of success.

That for me is just how to behave as a decent human being.

 

[Flying Crane]

Here's the thing, I believe in my art, I wish I had the exuberance of my youth, with the experience of my years, I have offered to test my art against other martial artists, they have refused, as I am not a big enough fish, but the big fish do not want to risk their reps, I understand some of the arguments, but unless you have trained in Systema you don't know, you can say some things are not valid, or you can say it's no different from other arts in certain aspects, but until big fish are willing to step up, or people are willing to try it, or the art is allowed to show itself on the world stage, rumours and opinions are going to reign, I could spend 20 mins on the net and find substandard videos to ridicule any art on the planet, but I also understand Systema needs to prove itself on the same stage, all I can say is I am trying, if you try it and don't like it, fine, not your cup of tea, fine. Debate the art, I am up for that, it's healthy to debate, but to dismiss the art as parlour tricks, when you have not tried it, maybe that says more about yourself than your martial arts.

Systema does not need to prove itself on the world stage. No art does, no person does. Really, it does not matter. Really.

The people for whom that kind of thing matters, are the people who do not matter.

 

[drop bear]

Systema does not need to prove itself on the world stage. No art does, no person does. Really, it does not matter. Really.

The people for whom that kind of thing matters, are the people who do not matter.

Actually the reverse is true.

A person who could make Systema effective on the world stage would matter considerably more than you.

If we just looked empirically at the amount of influence that person could have over someone who achieves nothing. The difference is cut and dried.

And that would even be elements completely unrelated to fighting.

So for example this is Chris Cyborg visiting a cancer center.

Her positive effect on cancer patients is based solely because she matters more than you do.

And she matters more than you because she proved herself on the world stage.

 

[drop bear]

 

[Gweilo]

 

[Gweilo]

The following is a train video on movement, and looking

Matt Hill

 

[Gweilo]

So a whole bunch of MMA promotions, BJJ comps, boxing, kickboxing just turned you down?

No this is who turned me down

 

[drop bear]

No this is who turned me down

But he is not your only option to get a fight if you wanted one.

 

[Gweilo]

Yes pretty much he is, who else wants to fight a 49 year old former Un liscened fighter?