Systema a discussion

[Gweilo]

i didnt choose anything, i said one has proven effectiveness and two are dodgy, they self select really.even you where able to work out which was which from the clue

In most military units, equipment, weaponary, is usually enough, I agree, but Krav maga in its original form, and systema, have been used by elite forces in real situations, but because this information is privvy, you choosevto ignore it.

 

[Gweilo]

A: What's the purpose of your MA training?
B: My purpose is for self-cultivation, inner peace, culture exchange, be a better person, good against evil, world peace, future of the human being, ...
C: My purpose is to land my fist on my enemy's face.

I like C's simple answer better than B's fancy answer.

Answers:
A health, strength, survival in any situation
B sounds like something a contestant in a miss world contest would say.
C just the face?

 

[Gweilo]

At one point it was a goal of mine to control my anger. I've since learned that it's better not to forcibly control anger; my goal now is simply to enjoy myself.

Thats great, I also enjoy my training, but I control my anger, and direct it, rather than it dictating my response,

 

[Headhunter]

Thats great, I also enjoy my training, but I control my anger, and direct it, rather than it dictating my response,

You sound like you are straight out of a Bruce lee movie

 

[Gweilo]

You sound like your from the tv series grumpy old men.

 

[Headhunter]

You sound like your from the tv series grumpy old men.

Lol I’m not grumpy at all in fact it’s amusing

 

[Gweilo]

Which bit do you find amusing?
Is it the bit about knowing yourself, the bit about using physics of motion, or just Systema, after all you tried it for a couple of hours, and decided it was of no use to you

 

[Headhunter]

Which bit do you find amusing?
Is it the bit about knowing yourself, the bit about using physics of motion, or just Systema, after all you tried it for a couple of hours, and decided it was of no use to you

Yep you’re right it is no use to me I tried it it bored me and no what’s amusing is when people say all this fortune cookie Bruce lee philosophy stuff....most of the times it’s a lot of words saying absolutely nothing which in reality doesn’t make a difference to actual fighting Me knowing about physics of motion ain’t doing me much good when an idiot is swinging at me in a bar. But as I say if that’s what you’re into then fair enough but in my experience fighting is not deep and philosophical and no internal flow or energy is going to help very much. But again not everyone’s in it for fighting some people like that stuff so fair enough each to their own

 

[Gweilo]

Me knowing about physics of motion ain’t doing me much good when an idiot is swinging at me in a bar.

On the contray, an idiot swinging at you, would be the ideal time to understand the centre of their gravity within their support frame, it would make avoiding the vector easy, and once their mass is weight transfered, and the vector in motion, they will leave themselves off balance and open.

 

[Headhunter]

On the contray, an idiot swinging at you, would be the ideal time to understand the centre of their gravity within their support frame, it would make avoiding the vector easy, and once their mass is weight transfered, and the vector in motion, they will leave themselves off balance and open.

Lol...in a fight you haven’t got time to think about that theory stuff. When your fighting you’re not thinking about vectors and centre of gravity and weight transfer. You’re thinking about getting out there it’s not fight and think about a bunch of theory. Hey all that it sounds good in theory it sounds clever and thoughtful but it all goes out the window but the punches are actually coming. That’s why a lot of traditional martial artists lose. They spend all their time thinking about this theoretical stuff but not about how to actually fight. I’ve been there I’ve heard all this theoretical stuff for years how to cancel their depth and shift their perception and all of that good sounding stuff, but in the ring or in the street I’ve never considered it at all because you spend time thinking about all that that’s when you end up knocked out. Any fight I’ve been in I’ve done well but never because I knew about vectors and angles and weight distribution

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

On the contray, an idiot swinging at you, would be the ideal time to understand the centre of their gravity within their support frame, it would make avoiding the vector easy, and once their mass is weight transfered, and the vector in motion, they will leave themselves off balance and open.

I don't need to know physics to know dude is rushing at me, let me get under him and throw him.

You are making martial arts sound a lot more complicated than they need to be.

 

[Gweilo]

Ive had plenty of fights and I know how it works, its not about thinking about it, its about recognising it within movement, and adapting with my movement,

let me get under him and throw him.

Why get under him?,
use all that energy throwing him, why not just move out the way

 

[jobo]

On the contray, an idiot swinging at you, would be the ideal time to understand the centre of their gravity within their support frame, it would make avoiding the vector easy, and once their mass is weight transfered, and the vector in motion, they will leave themselves off balance and open.

it would be an ideal time to duck

 

[jobo]

In most military units, equipment, weaponary, is usually enough, I agree, but Krav maga in its original form, and systema, have been used by elite forces in real situations, but because this information is privvy, you choosevto ignore it.

im not particularly having ago at either systema of KM, just pointing that your point that they technical superior to say kung fu, or any other TMA is far from the truth

on the contrary ive seen systema and KM vids that are just as comic as the slight touch aikido or kung fu vids we all like to laugh at, yet i also know all of those CAN be effective in the right club and the right MA or the right elite military unit

it really doesnt matter what the SAS use, your going down

i suspect systema and KM are extremely effective if your 25 and an elite solderer, im less convinced that they are effective for fat old men, in quite the same way

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

On the contray, an idiot swinging at you, would be the ideal time to understand the centre of their gravity within their support frame, it would make avoiding the vector easy, and once their mass is weight transfered, and the vector in motion, they will leave themselves off balance and open.

If you draw a line between your opponent's feet, any attack that's vertical to that line can destroy his balance easily. This is just "common sense".

Do you need to understand the center of your opponent's gravity? All you need is just to check his feet position.

 

[Headhunter]

I don't need to know physics to know dude is rushing at me, let me get under him and throw him.

You are making martial arts sound a lot more complicated than they need to be.

Agreed and that’s the issue. People go on about fighting being a science....nonsense fighting is very simple you hit them until either they go down or you have a chance to escape there’s no science or maths or any of that, I’m an American kenpo guy so I know all about the theory side and hey yeah I enjoy it to a degree it’s fun finding patterns that relate to other stuff but I also know the category completion the height width and depth zones the angles of incidence....that stuff means nothing when I’m getting jumped and it’s all that that makes traditional arts have a bad rep

 

[drop bear]

im not particularly having ago at either systema of KM, just pointing that your point that they technical superior to say kung fu, or any other TMA is far from the truth

on the contrary ive seen systema and KM vids that are just as comic as the slight touch aikido or kung fu vids we all like to laugh at, yet i also know all of those CAN be effective in the right club and the right MA or the right elite military unit

it really doesnt matter what the SAS use, your going down

i suspect systema and KM are extremely effective if your 25 and an elite solderer, im less convinced that they are effective for fat old men, in quite the same way

By definition.

But that is almost every martial art.

Exept boxing for some weird reason.

 

[Headhunter]

Ive had plenty of fights and I know how it works, its not about thinking about it, its about recognising it within movement, and adapting with my movement,

Why get under him?,
use all that energy throwing him, why not just move out the way

Again recognising within movement and adapting my movement....sounds good..sounds very zen and masterful...doesn’t work like that though. Street fights do not look pretty and clean they’re messy and sloppy. When I train I’ve got good kicks and pretty crisp punches but if I ever had to throw down I know it wouldn’t look anything like any technique drill or sparring match.

 

[jobo]

By definition.

But that is almost every martial art.

Exept boxing for some weird reason.

which,, the fat old man bit, well yes and its a point ive made to you in the past, its of no value to invoke a top class athlete or an elite unit and say look this MA is effective because they do it ,unless you could get work as a body double for who ever your pointing at, even if that a body double for an ageing mike Tyson

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ive had plenty of fights and I know how it works, its not about thinking about it, its about recognising it within movement, and adapting with my movement,

Why get under him?,
use all that energy throwing him, why not just move out the way

I'm using almost no energy throwing him. He's throwing himself, I'm just positioning myself to let him.

It would actually be more energy for me to dodge and move out of the way. But obviously which one I do depends on the situation, and how I react in the moment.