Surrogate sex partner inspires story, film

[Tez3]

So it goes back to the original question. Just because she claims to be treating a paitent it makes her not a prostitute but a woman at a high price escourt service or a street walker at a truck stop that does the same thing is? What would you think if your spouse was seeing a sexual surrogate with out your knowledge? Oh no honey I wasn't cheating she's a doctor. We were having sex but as therapy not pleasure. I didn't tell you because I was embarrassed. I can hear Tiger woods now. No wonder he got cracked with a golf club.

Why do you go back to the sleaze factor? Why always the worst possible idea? What if you were a single severely disabled person who was trying to have as a best a life as they could, who had a normal sex drive and this woman could provide you with the sex life that 'normal' people take for granted? Sure she takes a fee for it but even if she didn't people would still call her names.
We also don't know the conditions she puts on her therapy, she may be far more moral than you give her credit for.

 

[ballen0351]

Why do you go back to the sleaze factor? Why always the worst possible idea? What if you were a single severely disabled person who was trying to have as a best a life as they could, who had a normal sex drive and this woman could provide you with the sex life that 'normal' people take for granted? Sure she takes a fee for it but even if she didn't people would still call her names.
We also don't know the conditions she puts on her therapy, she may be far more moral than you give her credit for.

We already have a place for severely disabled people to have sex its called the bunny ranch. Point is call it what it is. Don't give it a fancy name and try to sound like something its not. I have no problem with people using a LEGAL prostitute. All she did was give a fancy name to something to that was illegal to get around the law. Good for her she found a loop hole to make money but again a duck is a duck no matter how hard it trys to tell you its a swan.

 

[Steve]

And so you think she's a crack whore?

I'm still trying to figure out your position on this. You seem to argue both sides from sentence to sentence. Do you disapprove of what she's doing? Would you support legalizing prostitution? Are you suggesting that if she moved to Nevada, she would no longer be a crack whore? Seriously. I'm not trying to be a smartass.

I can't honestly even tell if you object to what she's doing or not. I think so, but is it because you think selling sex is bad or you just think that she's a criminal? or something else?

 

[ballen0351]

And so you think she's a crack whore?

Not unless shes addicted to crack which it does not say she is. I do know all of the prostitutes Ive ever spoke with were addicted to Crack or Heroin or some other drug.

I'm still trying to figure out your position on this. You seem to argue both sides from sentence to sentence. Do you disapprove of what she's doing?

I cant say I disapprove. I do consider what he is doing to be prostitution not treating a medical condition. So I disapprove from a legal stand point. Personally I could care less what she does but dont try to act like it something its not.

Would you support legalizing prostitution?

Yes and No. I would have less of a problem with a legalized brothel type system. Set places to go, licensed prostitutes, drug and medical testing for prostitutes, security for the prostitute and the client.
I would have a serious problem with a flat out ok its legal no rules no regulations. I also would have a problem with legalized street walkers even if they were licensed and tested.

Are you suggesting that if she moved to Nevada, she would no longer be a crack whore? Seriously. I'm not trying to be a smartass.

Im suggesting if she moved to Nevada she wouldnt be breaking the law like I feel she is in California.

I can't honestly even tell if you object to what she's doing or not. I think so, but is it because you think selling sex is bad or you just think that she's a criminal? or something else?

I object to her trying to say shes not a prostitute when she clearly is. According to the law as I read it in California where I think she is from it states trading sexual contact for money is illegal. I didnt read the entire section of the law but I didnt see any exceptions for medical reasons. So I think in California she is a criminal. I think in a place where Prostitution is legal then no she is not a criminal.

My personal beliefs are: In a perfect world if you want to be a prostitute then its your body have at it. BUT We dont live in a perfect world and Ive seen too many prostitutes that are beaten, raped, murdered, kidnapped, forced into prostitution under threat of death. Runaways that are purposely hooked on drugs by Pimps and then forced into prostitution to get a fix. So Im against it from that stand point.

 

[ballen0351]

Prostitution and drugs are 2 areas where my Libertarian side clashes with my life experience side

 

[Steve]

Not unless shes addicted to crack which it does not say she is. I do know all of the prostitutes Ive ever spoke with were addicted to Crack or Heroin or some other drug.

Okay. So, that makes sense. When you said that there was no difference between her and a crack whore, you were being hyperbolic.

I cant say I disapprove. I do consider what he is doing to be prostitution not treating a medical condition. So I disapprove from a legal stand point. Personally I could care less what she does but dont try to act like it something its not.

So, were it legal, you would just consider it to be a clinical brothel.

Yes and No. I would have less of a problem with a legalized brothel type system. Set places to go, licensed prostitutes, drug and medical testing for prostitutes, security for the prostitute and the client.
I would have a serious problem with a flat out ok its legal no rules no regulations. I also would have a problem with legalized street walkers even if they were licensed and tested.

I agree with you on this completely.

Im suggesting if she moved to Nevada she wouldnt be breaking the law like I feel she is in California.

I object to her trying to say shes not a prostitute when she clearly is. According to the law as I read it in California where I think she is from it states trading sexual contact for money is illegal. I didnt read the entire section of the law but I didnt see any exceptions for medical reasons. So I think in California she is a criminal. I think in a place where Prostitution is legal then no she is not a criminal.

My personal beliefs are: In a perfect world if you want to be a prostitute then its your body have at it. BUT We dont live in a perfect world and Ive seen too many prostitutes that are beaten, raped, murdered, kidnapped, forced into prostitution under threat of death. Runaways that are purposely hooked on drugs by Pimps and then forced into prostitution to get a fix. So Im against it from that stand point.

Okay. Thank you for taking the time to explain your position more clearly. Turns out, I agree with you for the most part. What she's doing is a form of prostitution, but I don't have any problems at all with her doing it. It is illegal, but as with other things, I see this as being a senseless area where we can decriminalize the situation and make it safer and a lot less seedy. Not to mention generate some revenue for the government through both taxes AND eliminating the cost of enforcing these laws.

 

[ballen0351]

Okay. Thank you for taking the time to explain your position more clearly. Turns out, I agree with you for the most part. What she's doing is a form of prostitution, but I don't have any problems at all with her doing it. It is illegal, but as with other things, I see this as being a senseless area where we can decriminalize the situation and make it safer and a lot less seedy. Not to mention generate some revenue for the government through both taxes AND eliminating the cost of enforcing these laws.

With Govt regulation then Prostitution without a "license" (for lack of a better term) would still be illegal. That I could somewhat support. I still personally think its pretty pathetic for a grown man to pay for sex. Sometimes the only way we are able to help these woman that are being exploited is to make an arrest for Prostitution and then get them away from the "Pimp" and try and get them help.

 

[Tez3]

You know, she could be just what she says she is, a therapist and goodness knows there's a hell of a lot of men who think they are great in bed who could actually do with going to her. They could learn how to actually make love to a woman and they could learn how to appreciate a woman in bed. And yes I know you are all thinking well that's some other guy, not me. Many women will never tell the man they love that they are lousy in bed.
There's also a lot of men who actually do need sexual therapy, those that have been abused, victims of peadophiles, those that have problems actually having sex or being intimate with a woman, sometimes a hands on approach is what's needed and not with a bored prostitute who won't take the time to guide a chap through. What about men who have lost confidence about making love, why not a sympathic therapist to help him, the list is a long one of men who can be helped by a sex therapist and not just a bog standard prostitute who doesn't care about her work.
Decriminalise prostitution then you can start dealing with the other problems like drugs, pimps etc. Start thinking about all the men a woman like the one in the article could actually help, go on I dare you.

 

[Steve]

With Govt regulation then Prostitution without a "license" (for lack of a better term) would still be illegal. That I could somewhat support. I still personally think its pretty pathetic for a grown man to pay for sex. Sometimes the only way we are able to help these woman that are being exploited is to make an arrest for Prostitution and then get them away from the "Pimp" and try and get them help.

I heard a quick sound byte just the other day on this subject. This is from memory, so I may have some details wrong, but I think it's a 4 person team of cops who pick up girls and try to get them off the streets. There's a halfway house and a program to try and turn them around.

The issue isn't strictly prostitution, though. It's human trafficking and preying upon underage girls. While certainly prostitution is a big part of this, they're two separate issues.

On a different radio channel, the owner of the Bunny Ranch was talking to the guys on the afternoon radio show on the local rock station. He was commenting on the safety of his brothels as compared to the only two counties within Nevada where prostitution is illegal: Vegas and Reno. His point was that one need only look at the girls in his cat houses and compare them to the diseased and drug addicted girls working in the two counties where it's banned to see the value of decriminalizing the trade.

 

[ballen0351]

You know, she could be just what she says she is, a therapist and goodness knows there's a hell of a lot of men who think they are great in bed who could actually do with going to her. They could learn how to actually make love to a woman and they could learn how to appreciate a woman in bed. And yes I know you are all thinking well that's some other guy, not me. Many women will never tell the man they love that they are lousy in bed.
There's also a lot of men who actually do need sexual therapy, those that have been abused, victims of peadophiles, those that have problems actually having sex or being intimate with a woman, sometimes a hands on approach is what's needed and not with a bored prostitute who won't take the time to guide a chap through. What about men who have lost confidence about making love, why not a sympathic therapist to help him, the list is a long one of men who can be helped by a sex therapist and not just a bog standard prostitute who doesn't care about her work.
Decriminalise prostitution then you can start dealing with the other problems like drugs, pimps etc. Start thinking about all the men a woman like the one in the article could actually help, go on I dare you.

No matter how you try to make it sound sweet, and all for a good cause, sex for money regardless of reason is prostitution. Im not saying her intentions are wrong, Im not even saying prostitution is bad Im just saying call it what it is.

 

[ballen0351]

The NOT so sweet side of things:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22083762/ns/today-today_people/t/sex-slaves-human-trafficking-america/
In spring of 2004, Katya (not her real name), like thousands of other foreign exchange university students, was looking forward to the summer job placement that she and a friend had received in Virginia Beach, Va. When she and her friend Lena arrived at Dulles Airport after a long flight from Ukraine, they were relieved to be met by fellow countrymen who spoke Russian.
The two men, Alex Maksimenko and Michael Aronov, were holding signs with the girls’ names and greeted them by taking their bags and luggage. Charming and reassuring, Aronov informed the girls that they had been reassigned to a job in Detroit where they would waitress and perfect their English language skills.
The men drove Katya and Lena to the Greyhound bus station and gave them tickets to Detroit. Confused and exhausted, the girls had no reason to question the change of plans.
“When we got to the hotel in Detroit, everything changed,” says Katya. “They closed the door and sat us down on the couch, took our passports and papers and said, ‘You owe us big money for bringing you here.’ They gave us strip clothes and told us that we were going to be working at a strip club called Cheetahs.”

Shocked and scared, the two women were subjected to physical, mental and sexual abuse over the next year as they were forced to work 12-hour shifts stripping for local Detroit men’s clubs. According to immigration customs agent Angus Lowe, the men controlled the women through intimidation with guns and threats to hurt family members back home.

Katya and her friend are two of the estimated 17,000 young women and girls annually who are forced to work in the sex industry in the U.S. by organized criminals. “Chicago, Houston, St. Paul, Minnesota, these crimes are happening in every community in America big and small,” says Marcie Forman, director of investigations for ICE (Immigration Customs Enforcement). “We’re talking about money here. Millions of dollars, and these people don’t think about these women as human beings. They think of them as dollars and cents,” Forman says.
In February 2005, after months of planning and finally confiding in a customer from the strip club, the two girls escaped and were brought to the FBI and ICE. Their escape resulted in the arrest of Alex Maksimenko and Michael Aronov, both of whom pleaded guilty and are serving time in federal prison for their crimes.
Even though her captors are in prison, Katya says she will never live without fear. Maksimenko’s father — who was also convicted of forced labor and illegal trafficking — continues to live openly in Ukraine as a fugitive from authorities.

 

[ballen0351]

I heard a quick sound byte just the other day on this subject. This is from memory, so I may have some details wrong, but I think it's a 4 person team of cops who pick up girls and try to get them off the streets. There's a halfway house and a program to try and turn them around.

The issue isn't strictly prostitution, though. It's human trafficking and preying upon underage girls. While certainly prostitution is a big part of this, they're two separate issues.

Yeah I watched a news program 20/20 or 60 min I cant remember but they were following a group in Pheonix I believe that did the same thing.

We raided a few MS-13 brothels here a while back and to hear the womans stories of being kidnapped smuggled into the US and forced to have sex with 20 men a day was very sad. They said if they refused not only would they be killed but families back home as well.

 

[Tez3]

No matter how you try to make it sound sweet, and all for a good cause, sex for money regardless of reason is prostitution. Im not saying her intentions are wrong, Im not even saying prostitution is bad Im just saying call it what it is.

Not that long ago many women's problems were put down, by doctors, as hysteria and the cure for that was to make the women orgasm, the male doctors did this. The doctors were paid. Everyone thought this was frightfully correct and proper, however this lady uses sexual tecniques in her therapy, not necesarily sexual intercourse and she gets called a prostitute 'because that's what she is'. Mmm....... of course.
http://www.sensualmentality.com/Hysteria.html

 

[Steve]

The doctors were, technically, also prostitutes. Nowadays, they'd certainly be prosecuted... at least in America.

 

[Steve]

Does remind me of a woman who would convulse for a moment after she sneezed. I sat next to her on a plane.

 

[ballen0351]

Not that long ago many women's problems were put down, by doctors, as hysteria and the cure for that was to make the women orgasm, the male doctors did this. The doctors were paid. Everyone thought this was frightfully correct and proper, however this lady uses sexual tecniques in her therapy, not necesarily sexual intercourse and she gets called a prostitute 'because that's what she is'. Mmm....... of course.
http://www.sensualmentality.com/Hysteria.html

That sounds 100% unethical and illegal to prescribe sex with yourself. At least on most of the info I have read today regarding sex therapy the doc treating the patient and the one actually having the sexual contact are different people.



http://www.surrogatetherapy.org/codeofethics.html
The designation "surrogate partner" shall apply only in a therapeutic situation comprised of client, surrogate, and supervising therapist. A surrogate partner may be designated to act primarily as either a substitute partner or a co-therapist depending upon the agreement between the surrogate and the therapist.
The surrogate's relationship with the client is temporary; always within the context of the therapeutic situation and in association with the supervision of the therapist.

 

[wushuguy]

Alright people, let's not get too hyped up and hysterical about this topic. We don't want to have mass hysteria...

Not that long ago many women's problems were put down, by doctors, as hysteria and the cure for that was to make the women orgasm, the male doctors did this. The doctors were paid. Everyone thought this was frightfully correct and proper, however this lady uses sexual tecniques in her therapy, not necesarily sexual intercourse and she gets called a prostitute 'because that's what she is'. Mmm....... of course.
http://www.sensualmentality.com/Hysteria.html

 

[Makalakumu]

I still personally think its pretty pathetic for a grown man to pay for sex.

There are lots of reasons to pay for sex. Imagine if someone opened a business that would teach people how to have really good sex. You could get legitimate hands on instruction from professionals that could show you how to knock your partners socks off! That would be way better then learning from books and videos. Think about all of the threads on MT saying that you can't learn "martial" arts from videos and books. The same applies to "marital" arts! LOL!