Sudan Arrests Teacher for Insulting Islam

[Steel Tiger]

It's about time that people all over the world stopped abrogating their moral choices to hypothetical invisible men in the sky (or earthly men who came up with a neat way of excusing their actions).

Preaching to the choir in my case my friend.

I'm ashamed to say that I'm extremely angry about this particular news story and it's just as well that I'm in a position of no authority as I've reached the end of my tether with being 'understanding' and 'accepting' of the 'quirks' of other nations faiths.

I don't think you have anything to be angry about. There is only so much understanding that can be done of frankly incomprehensible features of senile religions and cultures.

Interesting term that, "... at the end of my tether ..." it suggests a point will be reached at wich things will snap back.

Now I hope that not too many would gainsay me here if I was to say that I'm generally regarded as having my head screwed-on right and am not normally given to extremist views?

So I likewise hope that this particular outburst will be ameliorated by my generally more liberal (English version) viewpoint when I say that a stern call should be going out from our embassy to what passes for government in the Sudan.

Head screwed on? OK, well most of the time . It is when people who are of a generally more liberal (I know what you mean) viewpoint get so annoyed that you know something is really not right.

My apologies to all but like I said, my tolerance sump seems to have reached capacity with this one. It's so bad and out-of-character for me that I don't even care if there's a hidden background to the story that we haven't heard yet. It's probably because I'm just old enough to recall tales of the times when being the holder of a British passport meant that you had a certain degree of protection from this kind of tin-pot-dictatorship.

It is getting, or perhaps has gotten, beyond the point at which one can really hide one's contempt. Many cultures, and pretty much all religions, have gone so far beyond their usefulness as to now be an obstruction to almost everything.

Unfortunately people will cling to these archaic and unreasoning features without any thought about them in some strange effort to maintain the distinctiveness of their culture or religion.

When there is no cultural evolution then intolerance is not far away.

 

[CoryKS]

Can you let me know where it says that. All I've been able to find is that the man is ritually impure for 7 days.

Probably doesn't. I was spoofing on the fact that every time a new atrocity is committed by the followers of HappyFunPeace, it's only a matter of time until someone hits the macro to send a post pointing out that, since "our" text has all those horrible rules in it that nobody has acted on in hundreds of years, we shouldn't be making judgement calls.

 

[Ceicei]

It is official. The Sudanese authorities decided to formally charge her according to this article:

LONDON, England (CNN) -- A British teacher arrested in Sudan after allowing her class to name a teddy bear "Mohammed" has been charged by authorities with offending religion, state-run media in Sudan report.

The authorities say that the teacher is insulting Islam by using a teddy bear's name in the likeness of the Prophet's name.

They decided even though another article quoting a seven year old student as saying:

"The teacher asked me what I wanted to call the teddy," the boy said shyly, his voice barely rising above a whisper. "I said Mohammad. I named it after my name," he added.

I am incredulous that they decided to formally charge the teacher anyway, even though the student in the class explained his reasoning for naming the teddy bear. The bear was never named by the children in intent as blasphemy to their Prophet after all.

- Ceicei

 

[newGuy12]

Well, at least the French seem to have it all under control in their country.

 

[Ceicei]

Update from ABC news (third page of the main article) on what the Sudanese leadership say:

The Sudanese clerics said this was blasphemy and believed it was intentional.

"What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said the statement.

"It is part of the campaign of the so-called war against terrorism and the intense media campaign against Islam," they said.

Although an earlier report had suggested that only one parent had complained, the clergy statement Wednesday said that several had complained.

:idunno:


Tez3 appears to hold the the correct observation with her earlier post upthread about her premise that this whole issue is regarding power.

It's about power and people, men, using religious laws to dictate to people As in Hitler's Germany or any dictatorship there are people who will use laws to control and subdue the people.

- Ceicei

 

[theletch1]

Certainly, it's about power...the power of fear. Toe the line, and we mean TOE THE LINE or else. Unfortunately, I don't feel it's only in dictatorships that the laws are used to control and subdue people. To an extent that's what laws are designed to do...just not to the extreme that we're seeing here. They are meant to control and subdue mankinds baser acts against his fellow man.

Sukerkin, I think I understand where you are, mentally, with the world situation. To put it into words, though, for me just isn't going to come very easily without getting me booted from the board. I don't have your eloquence and as an American trucker I'd blow the profanity filter clear out of the server.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Probably doesn't. I was spoofing on the fact that every time a new atrocity is committed by the followers of HappyFunPeace, it's only a matter of time until someone hits the macro to send a post pointing out that, since "our" text has all those horrible rules in it that nobody has acted on in hundreds of years, we shouldn't be making judgement calls.

This is exactly where the problem lies. Europe and America went through a long period in which the strictures layed down in the Bible were considered as the law of the land. All it did was make the clergy richer and kill a lot of people who didn't conform. The Islamic world is still in the midst of a similar ecclesiastic control, it seems.

Its not so much about the different rules layed down in different books, so much as it is about the men, and I emphasise men, who choose to hide behind them and exploit them for their own benefit. It doesn't matter what flavour of religion it is, there will always be a problem when someone chooses to uses the written word to control others (the Bible, the Qur'an, Mein Kampf, Mao's Little Red Book). It becomes dogma and so nobody thinks about it anymore.

It is official. The Sudanese authorities decided to formally charge her according to this article:


The authorities say that the teacher is insulting Islam by using a teddy bear's name in the likeness of the Prophet's name.

They decided even though another article quoting a seven year old student as saying:


I am incredulous that they decided to formally charge the teacher anyway, even though the student in the class explained his reasoning for naming the teddy bear. The bear was never named by the children in intent as blasphemy to their Prophet after all.

- Ceicei

Its very hard to take seriously people who consider the naming of a bear part of the world wide plot against Islam, but then, through their influence, this woman may end up suffering 40 lashes.

There are some very nasty undercurrents involved here. One that was brought home to me last night is the position, or perceived position, of women in Islam. I understand the initial complaint against the teacher in Sudan was made by another teacher. Was this teacher a man? I don't currently know. On the news last night I saw a group of women in Pakistan who were preparing for a protest march (I'm not sure what it was about, but they were certainly unhappy with the Mullahs) and a group of men, some were Mullahs, some their followers and students, were seeking to stop the march because, in their opinion, it was immoral.

We have just had an election and now we have a new government, but the leaders of the party formerly in government have stepped down saying it is time to let the younger members guide the party. There is something of this in reverse going through the Islamic world. Young Moslems want to live by thier own interpretations and perspectives of what Islam is, especially in Iran and Pakistan. It is possible that these incredible reactionary stances we keep seeing from the Islamic world are attempts by the old established regime to maintain control.

 

[seninoniwashi]

Absolutely ridiculous! The kids are seven years old; it was a teddy bear that was given the name, not a pig in a barnyard. Per the article, it was the kids that decided on the name.

… and to threaten her with lashes when she has caused harm to none and to hold her to in contempt of a religion she doesn’t even believe in when she’s from a completely different culture and just came over to help. I can’t believe the intolerance... it’s blood boiling.

 

[Ray]

I sense some ethnocentricity here, some intolerance of another culture.

But I feel the way many previous posters feel - but that IS the culture.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

But the "offender" is not of the culture.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I sense some ethnocentricity here, some intolerance of another culture.

But I feel the way many previous posters feel - but that IS the culture.

Its not so much intolerance of the culture, though I think there is some of that too, it is intolerance of the people who are unwilling to accept that this was not done as an intended slight to their beliefs.

What I think we are really seeing here is the bold-faced application of a misogynistic worldview to an 'uppity' woman.

 

[kaizasosei]

yeah, bottom line is the world is a dangerous place.
who knows what else we dont know about this story. the culture is very different, perhaps there was some extreme cases of culture shock.
however, when people and societies(certain islamic ones) are that ignorant, hateful and destructive, it's feels futile wasting more words on the issue. although some things can be sorted out by talking. some things can only be sorted out by action. ones belief can obviously also be considered a kind of action.
keeping in mind some of the muslim world are still braving the 1300s, their current actions, will nevertheless not go unheard of. that is why it is a sad story in which all honour for religion is lost to the threat of a teddybear.
why are monotheists sometimes so aggressive. it seems to me that they rather have a one god because he is much easier to forget and easier to play out.
i too believe in one single force of goodness or one creator or creative force, but that doesnt prevent me from understanding my own conciousness through personification and various projections.
i condemn these flaky monotheists and their evil lipy thing they call a god.
here, i, believing in the one single power of truth. believing in the one holy god of which there is no other, i pray that this faith be changed into a polytheistic one. that should be the way how to make things understood.
god will teach them not to mess with a teddy.

i hope they sink into a disorganized polytheistic mess, that would be still better than being a peoples that follow a god that is exclusive and unjust.
actions speak louder than words.



j

 

[Sukerkin]

It would seem that at least our 'local' Muslim community knows to an extent where the 'line of reason' is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7118245.stm

I'm pleased to read this, even if it is in some part an excercising themselves from an incident they know is going to taint the public view of their faith even more than it already is.

 

[theletch1]

From the article linked by Sukerkin:

Chairman Massoud Shadjareh said: "Both the Sudanese government and the media must refrain from using Islam and Islamic principles to legitimise this fiasco, which may result in the unjust conviction of an innocent person, and which will only lead to the promotion of Islamophobia and further demonisation of Islam." And a spokesman for the Muslim youth organisation, the Ramadhan Foundation, said "this matter is not worthy of arrest or detention and her continued detention will not help repair the misconceptions about Islam."

I hope that this particular train of thought catches on elsewhere. As it stands now, the extremist that use the Islamic faith as an excuse for atrocities are creating an image of Islam that can only lead to more bloodshed. It's time the everyday Muslim stand up and say "Stop this. This is not what Islam is and we will not tolerate the hi-jacking of our religion anymore."

 

[CoryKS]

It's interesting to note what the IHRC considers a "hijacking of their religion". Apparently, subsidizing a campaign of genocide and rape is okay but flogging a teacher? Well, you've just stepped over the line there, buddy.

 

[CoryKS]

The teacher was tried and found guilty. Her sentence will be 15 days in jail and deportation. Having never been in a Sudanese jail, I couldn't guess whether this is a lenient sentence or not.

 

[Ceicei]

Further development of this story on CNN:

KHARTOUM, Sudan (CNN) -- Hundreds of angry protesters, some waving ceremonial swords from trucks equipped with loud speakers, gathered Friday outside the presidential palace to denounce a teacher whose class named a teddy bear "Mohammed" -- some calling for her execution.

The protesters, which witnesses said numbered close to 1,000, swore to fight in the name of their prophet.

In leaflets distributed earlier this week by Muslim groups, the protesters promised a "popular release of anger" at Friday's protests.
The leaflets condemned Gibbons as an "infidel" and accused her of "the pollution of children's mentality" by her actions.

From ABCnews:

"This an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said.

From CBSnews:

But an office assistant at the school, Sara Khawad, complained to the Ministry of Education that Gibbons had insulted the prophet. Khawad testified at Thursday's trial, chief defense lawyer Kamal Djizouri said.

Khawad "was doing this out of revenge against the administration," Djizouri said. He did not elaborate. But the director of the school's Parent-Teacher Association, Isam Abu Hasabu, claimed Khawad had argued with the principal before the incident.

Comparing the Prophet Muhammad - Islam's most revered figure - to an animal or a toy could be insulting to Muslims. But Boulos said that, contrary to earlier reports, no parents had complained.

Very sad, very sad indeed.

- Ceicei

 

[newGuy12]

I have great sympathy for Gibbons, the teacher. She (and a lot of others) were caught off guard by this.

But, this should serve as a clear warning to all others, to GET OUT of countries that are ruled by this Sharia law NOW and not go back!

There are protests now calling for her death.

 

[Sukerkin]

Did I mention we had nukes and they do not?

I despair sometimes of the insanity that people can delve down to when they think their non-existent invisible guy will forgive whatever they do.

We need to carpet-bomb the Sudan with copies of "The Prince" I think, maybe they'll get a clue - here's a link to get them started http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm.

Maybe we can develop space-flight technology enough to ship them off somewhere else where they can be loony without bothering anyone else?

After all it worked for Grayson for a while ... then the nukes had to come out anyhow but still ... {that was an Honor Harrington reference for people who are now scratching their heads :lol:}.

I deeply fear that on top the New Crusade the Bush administration and it's puppeteers has worked to manufacture, this sort of idiocy can only end in tears and blood - as I've said before, the New Dark Age looms courtesy of Western technology and Eastern medieval religiosity.

 

[Makalakumu]

Can you let me know where it says that. All I've been able to find is that the man is ritually impure for 7 days.

Who the **** cares? I mean really, anyone who takes the bible as a literal guide for their religion is not only uneducated about their religion, but is also uneducated about how homo sapians evolved.

The very syncreticism that the bible exihibits is a is a form of evolution!