Street BJJ
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Ha no comment
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I rolled with a coworker recently who has more wrestling and striking experience than me but on the ground I would submit him every time. He tripped me once and as I fell I just pulled myself into an open seated guard. I got a laugh out of it because he took it as a "come at me bro".
Hanzou
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As humorous as that is, if Keenan Cornelius, Ryan Hall, Lucas Leites, Masakazu Imanari, etc. are coming at you like that, you better start running.
ballen0351
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Do you really believe the stuff you post?As humorous as that is, if Keenan Cornelius, Ryan Hall, Lucas Leites, Masakazu Imanari, etc. are coming at you like that, you better start running.
Hanzou
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ballen0351
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You going to run away from some one rubbing their butt across the ground like a dog that needs to wipe.
so your "proof" is a demo clip where the person being taken down is supposed to stand there and get taken down. Ok
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If it's one of the folks Hanzou mentioned, yes. Yes, I would. I do BJJ. I've done it for 2 1/2 years... Am a blue belt... And can 100% say that I would stand zero chance against them. You could tie one hand behind their back and they'd still probably beat me.
As humorous as that is, if Keenan Cornelius, Ryan Hall, Lucas Leites, Masakazu Imanari, etc. are coming at you like that, you better start running.
Nah, running shouldn't be necessary. Just walk walk at a brisk pace.
Here's some clips of the same guy winning fights in the cage using the same move. (You can skip the first 46 seconds get past the seminar footage to the real fights.)
Ryan Hall also just won his first two fights on TUF using the same entry.
I've done BJJ for a whole lot longer than that. I'm a black belt. Any of those guys would crush me just about as easily.
ballen0351
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Silly me i,forgot if it happens in the ring then it always works
Nothing always works, in the ring or anywhere else.
Personally, I wouldn't advocate going for the Iminari roll on a street fight. It requires a lot of specialized skill. It involves tangling yourself up on the ground with an opponent, which is a bad tactical move if you need to quickly disengage and run.
Nevertheless if I saw one of the individuals Hanzou mentioned butt-scooting towards me with ill-intent*, I would back away. Even if I had buddies ready to jump in and help me, any of those guys could very likely break my leg before my friends stomped his head.
*(Which would never happen outside of a tournament. Those guys aren't stupid.)
Maybe they would crush you Tony in the ring or in a match but.... the street is a different place. You have to look at the perspective of Baleen, myself, anyone who carries for a living or is serious about personal protection. The butt scooting is ridiculous and yes I know it is meant as a joke but...... it is a ridiculous tournament approach to BJJ as well as going to the ground and pulling guard in a street fight or utilizing a very "high risk" entry to a knee bar or heel hook as in the video above. While anything has a potential to be effective we have to stay with higher percentage skill sets as well as realistic movement and I think we all are happy that BJJ has plenty of realistic movement that is not "high risk". Plus no matter how good someone may be in their chosen area, never give them more credit in another area of expertise. Almost anyone who has been in Law Enforcement, military engagement, corrections, security or the myriad other jobs where violence happens has seen more "action" than any martial instructor including a BJJ instructor. I know that is shocking but it is reality. The above referenced careers give you a whole new perspective on violence that goes beyond theory but instead into real world application.
Having said that I absolutely love what Ryan Hall has done in the TUF house but.... it would be very dangerous for him to ever attempt a roll into a heel hook on the street. Even with his very unique and special skills. It might work but... not high percentage and not really a good street technique. It has worked great for him in the cage so far but.... not a good option for the street.
Having said that I absolutely love what Ryan Hall has done in the TUF house but.... it would be very dangerous for him to ever attempt a roll into a heel hook on the street. Even with his very unique and special skills. It might work but... not high percentage and not really a good street technique. It has worked great for him in the cage so far but.... not a good option for the street.
Yes, before anyone says it I am sure that the Keenan Cornelius, Ryan Hall, Lucas Leites, Masakazu Imanari would not butt scoot, or roll into a heel hook or knee bar. Not unless they have started to delude themselves.
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this is the point. The guys mentioned wouldn't be involved in a street fight they have too much too lose. And if they were they are not going to be scooting across the ground with an itchy butt. So if I were to encounter this "technique" well running isn't going to be my first thought
I agree with most of that except the phrase " it is a ridiculous tournament approach to BJJ". In the context of the rules of competition, it can be a highly effective tactic. It's not something that simulates smart tactics in a street fight. It's not something that the creators of the tournament rules probably envisioned. It is something that some smart people figured out was effective in that particular situation. The top competitors adapt the rules that exist, not to some platonic ideal of what a fight should look like.
It's easy to complain about people "abusing the rules" like that, but really every context for violence (sport or not) has unique details that will be exploited by smart, experienced people. The best tactics for a prison cell extraction by a team of correctional officers are not the best tactics for a teenage girl trying to fend off a date rapist are not the best tactics for two estranged brothers getting into a fist fight at the family reunion and so on and so on. Smart fighters adapt the situation at hand, sport or otherwise.
Well, yeah. It's kind of a ridiculous hypothetical, which is why Keenan was making fun of it in the original video. That said, if you grant the silly notion of one of those guys boot scooting towards you on the street with ill intent, the safest thing to do would be to back away. I suppose you could draw your weapon and threaten to shoot or tase them, but walking away seems like a less drastic option.
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My proof is showing a Bjj elite grappler utilizing their body in a similar fashion to that of the sitting position. Inamari can hit the exact same takedown from the seated (butt scoot) position. And yeah, plenty of guys have been taken down with that entry under full resistance.
There's plenty of examples of that in the video Tony posted.
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Hanzou
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I disagree with the "not high percentage" portion. If you can take down highly trained athletes and fighters (who usually know how to counter) with that tactic, why wouldn't you be able to take down untrained morons, or overweight meatheads with the exact same tactic?
Btw, Hall isn't the only fighter who has made that tactic work in MMA. Check out Tony's vid.
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