"Strategy not working in Afghanistan" says top US and NATO General.
- Thread starter Tez3
- Start date
Maybe letting so many politicians have so much influence in a war, rather than, say, trained soldiers, makes a difference. A clearly definable goal is a good thing too...
I thought No **** Sherlock was an Americanism, Tez...
Shuto
Purple Belt
I'm not surprised. The US has been focusing it's efforts in Iraq since the invasion. One can't determine if the US will win until the total focus is put into this theater.
I think the new commander should be given an opportunity to implement his plan, especially since the effort in Iraq is winding down.
I think the new commander should be given an opportunity to implement his plan, especially since the effort in Iraq is winding down.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
Nah, it's a squaddie'ism, after all Sherlock Holmes is the quintessential Englishman! And he would have said, it's elemental, we shouldn't have gone in there in the first place.We've been in there three times before and there shouldn't have been a fourth. Too many soldiers are dying for nothing.
I was for the mission until a few years ago when I realized that we were just spinning our wheels.
Do you realize that weve been there for 8 years? WW1 last 4 years, WW2 lasted 6 years. Korea 3 years.
Time to pack up and leave.
Do you realize that weve been there for 8 years? WW1 last 4 years, WW2 lasted 6 years. Korea 3 years.
Time to pack up and leave.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
Yes, it is. August has been a very bad month for the Allies, with more troops being killed than ever before. I for one couldn't look a widow or orphan in the eye and say.... your loved one didn't die for nothing.
jetboatdeath
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 9
Well so it's not working, typical lib response lets pull out.
Yea give up everything give it back and lets start an inquiry yea maybe we can get Bush...
Please pulling out is the last thing we should or can do. Lets just pull an Obama and bow down to them put our tail between our legs and whimper away. Think of the moral that would give to the enemy, but them again libs are worried about being mean to the enemy soooo...
We need to get the job done the troops that have died in theater deserve nothing less. We need to win. It does not matter if you agree with going in or not, both parties said go. All you can do now is vote them out. But we need to stop worrying about being nice in this war the enemy is not "nice" to us, let the troops do their job, it is a nasty job I know but it needs to be finished...
Yea give up everything give it back and lets start an inquiry yea maybe we can get Bush...
Please pulling out is the last thing we should or can do. Lets just pull an Obama and bow down to them put our tail between our legs and whimper away. Think of the moral that would give to the enemy, but them again libs are worried about being mean to the enemy soooo...
We need to get the job done the troops that have died in theater deserve nothing less. We need to win. It does not matter if you agree with going in or not, both parties said go. All you can do now is vote them out. But we need to stop worrying about being nice in this war the enemy is not "nice" to us, let the troops do their job, it is a nasty job I know but it needs to be finished...
Its not a traditional conventional war; it can not be won militarily. The borders are too porous, money, weapons, food and men ebb and flow with the wind.
Kick the Afghan central government in the ***, and get them to make a political solution with all the tribes.
Kick the Afghan central government in the ***, and get them to make a political solution with all the tribes.
Shuto
Purple Belt
I found this an interesting analysis for anyone interested in this topic.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2009/09/taliban-surprising-us-forces-w/
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2009/09/taliban-surprising-us-forces-w/
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2009
- Messages
- 3,399
- Reaction score
- 74
Of course, once the tribes see that the force (US military) propping up the government is gone, the feuding will start again. Like it or not, but the US government cannot 'fix' this, any more than they could fix Iran and Iraq a couple of decades ago.
Perhaps.
The Taliban have never attacked anyone outside of Afghanistan, theyre content to have sex with goats and tell people what to do. There are far worse people in the world that we ignore or give token lip service to.
It has to be a political solution that includes the Taliban, or it will never work.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #12
yorkshirelad
Master Black Belt
I think most of you know my political opinions, but this goes beyond politics into the realm of common sense.
Governments since the time of Alexander the Great have been trying to 'conquer' Afghanistan and all have failed. In recent history it's been Britain, USSR and now the US and it's allies. There is no difference now than there was 120 years years ago. Afghanistan is a tribal country that does not acknowledge democracy as we know it. There culture is ancient and not liable to change because we will it to.
The enemy of the US is supposed to be Al Queda and we know that they are predominantly situated in the border areas of Pakistan. Somewhere along the way the Taliban have become the primary enemy. So what happens next. We defeat the Taliban and then some other paramilitary group of Mujahadeen pot up and assert their authority. The US and it's allies are then called again. It's an endless cycle that is unwinnable.
it seems that we are unable to learn the lessons of history and because of that good men get killed.
Oh and before anyone calls me an appeasing liberal or the like, I think most people here will testify to the fact that I am as far removed from being a liberal as anyone. I just believe that if a war cannot be won, it shouldn't be fought.
Governments since the time of Alexander the Great have been trying to 'conquer' Afghanistan and all have failed. In recent history it's been Britain, USSR and now the US and it's allies. There is no difference now than there was 120 years years ago. Afghanistan is a tribal country that does not acknowledge democracy as we know it. There culture is ancient and not liable to change because we will it to.
The enemy of the US is supposed to be Al Queda and we know that they are predominantly situated in the border areas of Pakistan. Somewhere along the way the Taliban have become the primary enemy. So what happens next. We defeat the Taliban and then some other paramilitary group of Mujahadeen pot up and assert their authority. The US and it's allies are then called again. It's an endless cycle that is unwinnable.
it seems that we are unable to learn the lessons of history and because of that good men get killed.
Oh and before anyone calls me an appeasing liberal or the like, I think most people here will testify to the fact that I am as far removed from being a liberal as anyone. I just believe that if a war cannot be won, it shouldn't be fought.
CoryKS
Senior Master
It was an awful lot easier to kill them when they were out in the open. Maybe the best thing would be to leave and let them take control again if they have the means. If they start letting al Qaeda or others use Afghanistan as a terrorist haven again, well, the buildings in Kandahar won't stop a missile better than a cave does.
jetboatdeath
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 9
The sad thing is that you think it is funny...
The politicians need to stay out, the media needs to stay out unless there is something not koshure (phonetic, sorry). The military needs to be given the mission and then the only questions they need to be asked is "What can we give you to complete this mission General?" The Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines know the rules of war and follow them, there will always be people who break the rules but they are the exception just like in any society.
Hoo-Ah!,
Hudson69, SSG, COARNG
Hoo-Ah!,
Hudson69, SSG, COARNG
OP
- Thread Starter
- #17
Funny? you think I really find it funny that people are being killed every day out there?
No, what I think is funny is your Hitleresque rhetoric. You are spouting complete bollocks.
You have lost 51 of your countrymen in August alone and you think liberals are the problem? You prattle on like a commissar giving a pep talk to the troops on the Russian front. I have just recently seen a photograph of an American soldier wounded in Afghanistan, half his head is missing, his mother is tending him, I know of a soldier who has brain damage, blindness and lost all his limbs, thousands of British soldiers have been injured some terribly, I don't know what the figures for Americans are but I'm betting it's very high and you think that showing the natives who's boss is worth it, dear lord, if I didn't laugh at you I'd cry for shame of being a fellow human being as you.
How dare you mock the dead and injured with your right wing, colonialistic attitude, who the hell cares about the morale of the enemy, do you even know who the enemy is? do you realise that it's not actually the Taliban, nasty as they are, because they have never struck at any of our countries being content to keep their cruelty and viciousness in their own country. It's Al Queda, funded by Iran and Syria, sheltered by Pakistan where they train and they have the tacit approval of the majority of the worlds Muslim countries as well probably most of the Muslim people.
How many funerals have you been to that you can rant about staying in Afghanistan and the memories of the soldiers? How do you think they feel about being there? they are doing their duty as asked by their governments but they want to come home as they know they cannot win this war and to carry on fighting will be to lose more soldiers.
How many times have you been shot at or blown up in Afghanistan that you have the right to condemn soldiers to die and be horribly injured because your pride says they should stay there?
How many mothers of 18 year old soldiers have you looked in the eye and told them their sons died for a good reason, how many babies have you looked at who will never know their fathers? Can you look at the photographs of each and every one of the soldiers killed there and read the stories of each and every injured soldier and truly think they haven't been let down by our governments? If you truly think this is a war worth fighting, join up.
jetboatdeath
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 9
Afgan ... none..
Counting the friends I lost in Saudi, Iraq, and Samilia however more than I care to mention.
It is always funny hearing this line of crap from someone who has never been in the military, the troops do it because they signed up to do it.
They don't want to turn tail and run they want to win end it so they never have to go back. That is the job they signed up to do.
Again Afgan none...
But in other places countless amounts of shots, bombs, missles have been lobed my way. Here is a little clue, war is not pretty people get hurt mamed killed I have seen it first hand. Name me one troop in any war who didn't want to come home. But they didn't why because there is (thank God) some people who will lay their life on the line for you cry babys so you can stop them from doing the job they want to do.
How old are you? Is this the first war you have lived through?
How many horrible pictures would you like to see from any other wars?
Again bad stuff happens to great people in war.
You have NO idea what is going on over there all you know is what you have read.
And as for me joining up (again) nope. It has nothing to do with me thinking a war is wrong or not (that is not the soliders job) I am too old now...
So in the future before you attack me maybe you should ask a few questions first. I will be more than happy to answer....
jetboatdeath
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 253
- Reaction score
- 9
opps
