Straight Line vs Arc in strikes/blocks.

[Tydive]

In reading about Wing Chun I noticed the constant referance to two point attack philosophy (shortest distance between two points is a line, which is not true. The shortest distance between two points is another point. ).

I assume that most of the strikes are either to the center or to a vulnerable spot (pressure point, soft tissue or joint) rather than just random body blows. I am also assuming that all strikes originate from the feet and are driven from your center which then moves the elbow. Do you guys focus on keeping the shoulder and hip moving as a unit? Considering the focus on twisting I would guess that this is a key to effective Wing Chun.

In my experience I am significantly more effective using a slight arc in my strikes, in effect I am creating a series of circles that I move around and with. Some of these circles / arcs are so large that it may look like a straight attack, but in reality the energy is arcing or at the very least rotating around my center. This allows a great deal of "flow" between movements as long as balance/center is maintained.

On the straight line approach I find it excellent for quick jabs and locked knee breaks, but prone to successful blocking. For example if I do a straight jab at your face and you do an outside block you should be able to drive me off line. If on the other hand I have a slight toward your center arc I will drive through your block and hit my target. (Admittedly, I am more likely to strike your arm and then control you from there.. but that is a different discussion).

Anyway... I get the feeling I am missing something here, any clarification is welcome.

 

[ed-swckf]

sounds like straight forward inclusion and exclusion punching, both are wing chun. Chung choy (battle fists) is another adaptation of a straight punch which isn't strictly linear as it crosses lines, there is also the use of deng sau to bounce off an excluding arm and onto its target. Personally the techniques i've mentioned and the normal straight wing chun punch work fine for me and i favour them.

 

[Gary Crawford]

sounds like you got it,at least from my jkd point of view.The arching strkes can be very usefull as long as the do not interupt your flow,but keep in mind the arching strikes are not as well connected to the ground as other strikes,therefore relying more on body rotation(hips) for power.I could be missunderstanding you also.It would be better to explore this in person.

 

[Tydive]

Gary, thank you for the answer I have some follow up Q's.
"the arching strikes are not as well connected to the ground as other strikes"
I really don't understand this statement... perhaps our definitions are different. By Arcing do you mean hooks? And even then no matter what the form of the strike it is always driven by the center. Or are you saying that it is harder to perform an arcing strike and maintain center?

"therefore relying more on body rotation(hips) for power"
Where else would you develop power from? Perhaps that explains the above confusion. Even in the 1 inch punch you are using your total mass from the center to perform the strike, the rotation of the hips may be very very small, but in my experience it is still there.

Ed, thanks. I am not familure with some of your terminology but I get the idea.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I think we do a a terminoligy clash going here.I'm sure it's on my part.Let's find some common ground.My best punch starts with my back foot swinging my heel out with my knee slightly bent and hip rotation quickly following and driving my elbow(elbow in) and fist straight.I feel my power from the ground.I think I understand about driving from the center.Maybe we are talking about the same thing.My power is driven through my center,but starts on the ground.

 

[Tydive]

Yup, same deal. All strikes start from the ground.

I took a look at the vids at http://www.sifugrados.com/technique.shtml and that answered all my questions. It's pretty funny most of the stuff that the Sifu was doing reminded me of my original training, funny to think that 30 years later I might be getting back to my roots. Same ol roll offs on strikes, blocks are also strikes, both hands are involved, keep your centerline out of your opponents effective range, redirect force, quick shots to the center etc.

Now to check out the Wing Chun in the SF Bay Area...

 

[Wing_Chun_Bob]

Well this is how i was explained wing chun blocks, by my sifu jim clark, when a round punch or jab is incomming towards you, taun sao works best, for straight jabs, pac sao works caues that leads into trapping or sticky hands, in which can put your opponient off balance.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Straight Line versus Arc or Circular motion.

Let us look at this from a mathematical or physics perspective.

From a certain frame of reference a technique can be linear and yet from a different point of view it is can be seen to be an arc or circular.

Check punches and also kicks. Look at them from different points of view. Check it from three different 90 degree translations to get a better understanding.

Some people who call certain techniques linear will find that it is also circular or in an arc form a different frame of reference.

:asian:

 

[Tydive]

Rich,

Good point. I find that the more I know about martial arts the less difference I see between them. Often the form is much less important than the engine that drives it.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

While arcing is probably present somewhat in WC, linear striking and the centre line is a core principal and originates greatly in the WC we see today from daoist concepts. The arcing is a marked trait of shaolin stylings and comes from a totally different concept of defence. Maybe the reason you feel "less grounded" in your arcing strikes is because part and package of the arc strike philosphy according to shaolin gongfu are the three jings or limbs alignment ( ie :- knee square over foot > elbow over knee > and shoulder in line with hip in line with fist). Google on jings of shaolin gongfu for more info or clearer description. But crux is that the bottom half stance and structure is different, so it's not surprising that in a style that emphasises elsewhere or otherwise to arcing, that your base will feel off or unnatural.