Stepping with Right or Left Foot

[isshinryuronin]

I have a long time had this very far fetched idea that the Naihanchi kata have same origin as XYQ

Wong Chong Yoh was a xingyi guy in the 1600's. He taught Chatan Yara, who taught Sakugawa, who taught Matsumura, Shuri-te, the first guy we know of who did naihanchi kata. He may have gotten it from Ason. The form may have also been passed down to Matsumora thru a Tomari-te lineage. Hard to really trace it with certainty, like much of karate history.

What’s the name of that book, who’s the author?

The book is Karate Uchina-Di (Ryukyuan dialect for their native hand). Author is Itzik Cohen. According to his bio, a long-time karate-kobudo practitioner and researcher. An Israeli officer in infantry and Directorate of Military Intelligence. This 600-page book gives a very detailed history of Okinawa, its relationship with China and Japan and all the cultural factors that came into play over the centuries. He then ties all this in with the evolution of all aspects of karate and how it came to be. It's like two books in one.

But what does the author of your book translate the supposed Chinese “dai poshin” to ?

I found this in an article on the internet while searching Ason who was quite influential in the 1800's. I haven't seen this term anywhere else so can't confirm it. The English translation was provided as "fighting on an uneven surface." This kind of makes sense based on the limited footwork.

I've seen it translated as 'internal divided conflict', but who knows

That's as good as any.

 

[Same Trick]

Wong Chong Yoh was a xingyi guy in the 1600's. He taught Chatan Yara, who taught Sakugawa, who taught Matsumura, Shuri-te, the first guy we know of who did naihanchi kata. He may have gotten it from Ason. The form may have also been passed down to Matsumora thru a Tomari-te lineage. Hard to really trace it with certainty, like much of karate history.

The book is Karate Uchina-Di (Ryukyuan dialect for their native hand). Author is Itzik Cohen. According to his bio, a long-time karate-kobudo practitioner and researcher. An Israeli officer in infantry and Directorate of Military Intelligence. This 600-page book gives a very detailed history of Okinawa, its relationship with China and Japan and all the cultural factors that came into play over the centuries. He then ties all this in with the evolution of all aspects of karate and how it came to be. It's like two books in one.

I found this in an article on the internet while searching Ason who was quite influential in the 1800's. I haven't seen this term anywhere else so can't confirm it. The English translation was provided as "fighting on an uneven surface." This kind of makes sense based on the limited footwork.

That's as good as any.

Yes I read that ‘Chatan Yara’ story back in the early 1980’s, if I remember correctly it was the British karate-practitioner/teacher/historian Harry Cook who proclaimed Yara learned XYQ in China/fujian province, I don’t know what source Mr Cook had for this, I’m guessing he came to that conclusion by how the story seemingly tells Yara was made to practice standing exercises, however the point in time and location(Fujian) Yara was in China seems not making it possible for him to have studied XYQ, more probably it was Matsumura that might have picked up anything related to XYQ during his visits to China .

The name “Dai Po Chin” as Chinese for “fighting on uneven surface” it’s hard to see. Anyway, it probably doesn’t matter what name a kata has as long as one practice it properly

 

[isshinryuronin]

however the point in time and location(Fujian) Yara was in China seems not making it possible for him to have studied XYQ,

My info is that Yara spent 20 years there, starting as a 12-year-old in 1680 and could have trained XYQ with Wong Chong who may have been born in 1630, making him only 50-yrs-old when Yara arrived, so the timeline fits.

As for location, many Northern China wudang/Shaolin-related practitioners (which I believe includes XYQ) fled south after the fall of the Qing Dynasty and he could have been in Fujian at the time Yara was.

(note: In my previous post I wrote Sakugawa taught Matsumura but should have said his son or another disciple (Makabe?) taught him. This is more likely as "Tode" Sakugawa would have been quite old (close to 80) when Matsumura was a young man.)

I think the main point is that there could well have been some XYQ influence in early karate (I've noticed some similarities) but whether it has any relation to naihanchi kata is, I think, unknown.