Stepping with Right or Left Foot

[isshinryuronin]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

I’m not Chinese, but I’ve never heard that before. Interesting.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

A: Dear judge! What crime have I committed to deserve 10 year in prison?
B: You stepped in this courtroom with left foot first.

This form starts with left foot first. This is the only left hand form in the long fist system. There are more left side forward than right side forward.

 

[Flying Crane]

The first step taken in our fundamental form is with the left foot.

My first sifu is left handed. He told me there is tremendous pressure for people to NOT be left handed, so when he was young he was forced to do things right handed. I’m not sure what the source or reasoning behind this is, but I vaguely recall it having to do with left being regarded as evil/bad or some such.

He is Chinese-American but his parents were immigrants.

 

[Haruhiko]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

It's related to yin-yang. Depending on the form, stepping with the left/yin leg is a defensive and stable or "inwards" martial philosophy, and wouldn't be interpreted or received as "outwards" or aggressive enough. That's from what I recall.

Ironically, Musashi talks about this in Go Rin no Sho (this is a paraphrased quote):
["When you move forward, use the principle of in-yo, and when retreating, also use the principle of in-yo. The body should move as one with the feet, and the timing of stepping is vital in determining advantage or disadvantage. The foot that moves and the foot that stays reflect the alternation of yin and yang."]

 

[Same Trick]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

Hmm ive never heard this.

Often one start feet together then step left foot to left, just as one start a karate kata/exercise - Yoi !

However there are some rules, one should always facing south beginning the taolu(kata)….and if one is into Xingyiquan one should clench one’s teeth when taking a leak.

Are these actually important rules to follow, I don’t know, but I follow them anyway

Anyway, Xingyiquan practice start with a left foot forward santishi stance(some schools do take a small step forward with right foot before landing in that left santishi stance)

Wu taijiquan form step forward with left foot too.

 

[Same Trick]

Some feng shui stuff on left/right

Dr Hsu Feng Shui Talk #5: Yin Yang Balance and Resonance

Talks on Feng Shui with Dr. Hsu 5: Yin Yang Balance and Resonance In the previous posting (number 4), we mentioned that, in Yin-Yang theory, a combination of Yin and Yang create harmony, while a combination of Yang and Yang, or Yin and Yin, create resonance, which means empowerment. I used...

www.bluemountainfengshui.com

 

[Same Trick]

It's related to yin-yang. Depending on the form, stepping with the left/yin leg is a defensive and stable or "inwards" martial philosophy, and wouldn't be interpreted or received as "outwards" or aggressive enough. That's from what I recall.

Ironically, Musashi talks about this in Go Rin no Sho (this is a paraphrased quote):
["When you move forward, use the principle of in-yo, and when retreating, also use the principle of in-yo. The body should move as one with the feet, and the timing of stepping is vital in determining advantage or disadvantage. The foot that moves and the foot that stays reflect the alternation of yin and yang."]

I don’t see Musashi here speaking that one leg or the other have a specific concrete yin or yang status.
Didn’t musashi move away from the common two hand grip of the sword(that usually face forwad with right leg) so to wield two sword instead, one in each hand, which leg forward just an adaption to how opponent(s) move ?

 

[Xue Sheng]

The first step taken in our fundamental form is with the left foot.

My first sifu is left handed. He told me there is tremendous pressure for people to NOT be left handed, so when he was young he was forced to do things right handed. I’m not sure what the source or reasoning behind this is, but I vaguely recall it having to do with left being regarded as evil/bad or some such.

He is Chinese-American but his parents were immigrants.

Chinese like to force folks to be right handed. They force everyone to write right handed, even say you can't write Chinese characters with your left hand

 

[Xue Sheng]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

I have never heard that from any of my Chinese Shifus, my wife, friends or their families. However this could be regional. There are superstitions in the North that no one in the South ever heard of and vise versa. I imagine these things can also be based on province of origin.

 

[Appledog]

In our school we have a saying, "left side first". I.E. if we repeat a move over and over, such as punching, 1 is the left side. I can imagine there's a local superstition somewhere but I don't think this has something to do with right or left handedness.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In Chinese culture/MA, I read that is bad luck to start with the left foot. This may affect how forms may begin. Anyone out there that can comment on this from a cultural point of view?

I have not heard this information before. I assumed stepping occurs when the right foot moves forward. Given that most people are right-handed, this would be the natural step. Moving left foot forward foot first would require a shuffle.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I have never heard that from any of my Chinese Shifu

Let me tell you all what prompted me to ask this question. I recently got a book on Okinawan karate history and was reading about naihanchi kata (called tekki in Japan), which is considered one of the "master" forms of karate. Most all Shorin based styles have this form and most all begin it cross stepping to the right with their left foot (the feet start together).

I learned, however, that it was not always done this way, that naihanchi (originally called dai pochin in Chinese) previously began with the right foot stepping to the left since beginning with the left foot was bad luck. It was Itosu who changed it to its current form and passed this on to other masters.

Isshinryu is one of the very few styles that begins this kata stepping to the left with the right foot as the author claims to have been the original method. Choki Motobu did it this way as well, and this is probably where my style got it from. He did study with Itosu, but also with Matsumora who could have gotten it from another teacher and so kept the kata's original Chinese beginning.

An interesting bit of karate history I'll look into a little more. Thanks for everyone's replies.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It has to do with whether the form creator was a right-hand person, or a left-hand person.

I don't know about the striking art. But in throwing art, If A and B are both right hand persons. If A and B have wrestled for a long period of time, The stronger person will remain to be as right-hand, but the weaker person will be changed into left-hand. In throwing art, you have offense arm that you put forward, and defense arm that you put backward. When 2 right-hand persons wrestle, the strong person will use left defense hand to prevent his opponent from coming toward his left side. After a period of time, the weaker person can only move in through his left side. He will then become a left-hand person.

Here is an example that a right-hand person has been changed into a left-hand person (He was changed by his elder brother).

 

[Same Trick]

Chinese like to force folks to be right handed. They force everyone to write right handed, even say you can't write Chinese characters with your left hand

This was the case in Sweden too up to the mid 1960’s , I had some teachers that quite hard handed tried to force me but I was more hardheaded and didn’t give in.

But there’s logic if one write from left to right one doesn’t drag the hand over the text/word(smearing it)one just wrote if one is right handed .

 

[Same Trick]

Let me tell you all what prompted me to ask this question. I recently got a book on Okinawan karate history and was reading about naihanchi kata (called tekki in Japan), which is considered one of the "master" forms of karate. Most all Shorin based styles have this form and most all begin it cross stepping to the right with their left foot (the feet start together).

I learned, however, that it was not always done this way, that naihanchi (originally called dai pochin in Chinese) previously began with the right foot stepping to the left since beginning with the left foot was bad luck. It was Itosu who changed it to its current form and passed this on to other masters.

Isshinryu is one of the very few styles that begins this kata stepping to the left with the right foot as the author claims to have been the original method. Choki Motobu did it this way as well, and this is probably where my style got it from. He did study with Itosu, but also with Matsumora who could have gotten it from another teacher and so kept the kata's original Chinese beginning.

An interesting bit of karate history I'll look into a little more. Thanks for everyone's replies.

I have a long time had this very far fetched idea that the Naihanchi kata have same origin as XYQ and therefore some striking similarities(but I also see some striking similarities with TJQ too)

As you say, the Isshin -ryu naihanchi begin with right foot/leg step crossing infront the left leg then left leg follow stepping out landing in mabu(horse stance). If one do this stepping instead to the front and ending up in a back stance rather than mabu then we have the way some XYQ linage do it taking the santi stance, the arms movement in Naihanchi nidan(Nr:2) strengthening my theory on the naihanchi-XYQ connection , however Naihanchi nidan is not in isshin ryu syllabus, so the kata always start moving the right in all other Shorin ryu styles, which would end up in a “wrong” side opening santi stance if doing it XYQ wise to the front)

But talking strictly Naihanchi kata with its strictly moving on a side to side line, it doesn’t really have an initial focus on facing/(squaring off) an opponent so starting the kata to either the left or to the right wouldn’t really matter.

I probably don’t make any sense with this post, but as I said I have a very far fetched idea on this

 

[Same Trick]

I recently got a book on Okinawan karate history and was reading about naihanchi kata (called tekki in Japan),

naihanchi (originally called dai pochin in Chinese)

What’s the name of that book, who’s the author?

The name “Naihanchi” has long been debated without any clear finality to what it mean - Nai may be “inner/inside”?, Han - “half”, Chi - “earth/soil”? .
What to make sense out of that one can work on.
But what does the author of your book translate the supposed Chinese “dai poshin” to ?
Some has made reference of the Naihanchi stepping to how crab walk, so perhaps Haipangxie ?

 

[_Simon_]

What’s the name of that book, who’s the author?

The name “Naihanchi” has long been debated without any clear finality to what it mean - Nai may be “inner/inside”?, Han - “half”, Chi - “earth/soil”? .
What to make sense out of that one can work on.
But what does the author of your book translate the supposed Chinese “dai poshin” to ?
Some has made reference of the Naihanchi stepping to how crab walk, so perhaps Haipangxie ?

I've seen it translated as 'internal divided conflict', but who knows!

 

[HighKick]

What’s the name of that book, who’s the author?

The name “Naihanchi” has long been debated without any clear finality to what it mean - Nai may be “inner/inside”?, Han - “half”, Chi - “earth/soil”? .
What to make sense out of that one can work on.
But what does the author of your book translate the supposed Chinese “dai poshin” to ?
Some has made reference of the Naihanchi stepping to how crab walk, so perhaps Haipangxie ?

I would aver that since 'Naihanchi' is used in several Asian dialects and MA's styles, it takes on a different meaning from country to country. It can be seen as a stance, a form or Bunkai. References to Funakoshi infer it was more about the latter.

 

[Same Trick]

I would aver that since 'Naihanchi' is used in several Asian dialects and MA's styles, it takes on a different meaning from country to country. It can be seen as a stance, a form or Bunkai. References to Funakoshi infer it was more about the latter.

Yes, the name probably formed with old Okinawan dialect trying to sound the way an old Fujianese dialect pronounced the name of the exercise.
“Dai Pochin” The name supposedly Chinese that “Isshinryuronin” present , if one twist’n turn that a little one might find reference to joint-manipulation/locks, and also perhaps something stance/footwork specific