statue of the crane

[Karazenpo]

Interesting. Ed Parker Sr. always told me it came from Hung Gar and Splashing Hands and I recall seeing it practiced at GM Ark Wongs Kwoon in the fifties. As an aside, no one has knocked me over while demonstrating this principle - yet.

Yes, Doc, Mr. Parker was right. The crane spoken about in American Kenpo and Tracy's Kenpo is the Tiger/Crane form, one of the original five Hung Gar forms, yes, I totally agree on that. Statue of the Crane (symbol or vision of the white heron) however, is Rohai, which was a form widely practiced and passed down from the Tomari province of Okinawa. This form originally came from southern China also, but from the White Crane system and possibly more accurately from the 'Singing Crane' offshoot of the White Crane style. So in EPAK and Tracy's it's the Tiger/Crane form in Okinawan karate and Karazenpo and it's subsystems, it's Statue of the Crane (also referred to as the 'unshakable balance of the crane). Doc, you're a better man than me. I never really tried it, but I think I'd be kissing pavement if I did!, lol. Take care my friend and always a pleasure, With respect, Professor Joe

 

[Doc]

Yes, Doc, Mr. Parker was right. The crane spoken about in American Kenpo and Tracy's Kenpo is the Tiger/Crane form, one of the original five Hung Gar forms, yes, I totally agree on that. Statue of the Crane (symbol or vision of the white heron) however, is Rohai, which was a form widely practiced and passed down from the Tomari province of Okinawa. This form originally came from southern China also, but from the White Crane system and possibly more accurately from the 'Singing Crane' offshoot of the White Crane style. So in EPAK and Tracy's it's the Tiger/Crane form in Okinawan karate and Karazenpo and it's subsystems, it's Statue of the Crane (also referred to as the 'unshakable balance of the crane). Doc, you're a better man than me. I never really tried it, but I think I'd be kissing pavement if I did!, lol. Take care my friend and always a pleasure, With respect, Professor Joe

OK than that explains something I've often wondered about. During our "Chinese Kenpo" days, everyone did the "Tiger and the Crane" form borrowed straight from Hung Gar. When Mr. Parker dropped the form, he began talking about this concept of structural integrity he called "Statue of the Crane." But to my knowledge he never made reference to the old form being a part of the principle. I always wondered if there was a relationship. Thanks Joe, I'm just "heavier" than you.

 

[Bill Lear]

As an aside, no one has knocked me over while demonstrating this principle - yet.

If I were to pull the sword from the stone would it make me KING? (Sorry Doc, I just couldn't resist.) :knight:

 

[Goldendragon7]

If I were to pull the sword from the stone would it make me KING? (Sorry Doc, I just couldn't resist.) :knight:

Well, just because you pull the sword while on the Throne does NOT make you KING BiLLY!!!!!!!1
:mp5:

 

[Bill Lear]

Well, just because you pull the sword while on the Throne does NOT make you KING BiLLY!!!!!!!1
:mp5:

I don't usually pull it while on the throne, but I have been known to polish mine while in the shower.

 

[Goldendragon7]

I don't usually pull it while on the throne, but I have been known to polish mine while in the shower.

OMG !!!!!
:whip:

 

[Doc]

If I were to pull the sword from the stone would it make me KING? (Sorry Doc, I just couldn't resist.) :knight:

Billy, I thought you were the King.

 

[Karazenpo]

Doc, thinking back to my shodan test back in '77, I do recall this principle emphasized during a portion of it. We were told to get into the crane stance/posture (from Statue of the Crane) while the black belts who assisted in the test drilled us with punches and kicks. I remember taking a hook kick to the midsection. I didn't go down but if it caught me square in the solar plexus I probably would have had a carpet sandwich, lol.

 

[Doc]

Doc, thinking back to my shodan test back in '77, I do recall this principle emphasized during a portion of it. We were told to get into the crane stance/posture (from Statue of the Crane) while the black belts who assisted in the test drilled us with punches and kicks. I remember taking a hook kick to the midsection. I didn't go down but if it caught me square in the solar plexus I probably would have had a carpet sandwich, lol.

Although it doesn't taste that much better, I'd say a "carpet sandwich" during a test is better than a "concrete sandwich" on the street.

 

[Karazenpo]

Although it doesn't taste that much better, I'd say a "carpet sandwich" during a test is better than a "concrete sandwich" on the street.

Very true Doc, very true. I most defintely would rather take the 'rug burn' instead.

 

[Danjo]

BTW this form is also taught on the Villari DVD set. It's slightly different than the USSD version, but only slightly.

 

[14 Kempo]

In looking at the meanings of the various words ...

• statue
  • A three-dimensional form or likeness sculpted, modeled, carved, or cast in material such as stone, clay, wood, or bronze.
  • A sculpture representing a human or animal
• statute
  • A law enacted by a legislature.
  • A decree or edict, as of a ruler.
  • An established law or rule, as of a corporation.
• stature
  • The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position.
  • An achieved level; status.

... using the word "Statue" would imply a pose, no movement. I can make no sense of using the word "Statute", maybe someone out there can do so. The word "Stature" would make the most sense and is the term used at USSD.

 

[stickarts]

I saw several different names and "stature" was the last one i saw and I stuck with it since it seemed to make the most sense with what little I knew about it.
I never knew much of the history behind the form but it is useful to us in working balance.
Thanks to all for shedding some light on this!

 

[ChrisWTK]

I'm actually currently learning this form and it's listed as Stature of the Crane in our system.

 

[AmericanKenpoChris]

When I learned that as a green belt back in 1985-86, it was called Statue of the Crane. I made the presumption it was called that because of the crane stances frequently being utilized, but never really questioned the semantics of the title for I was only a teenager at the time.

I saw no practicality in many of the forms up until this point with the exception of one and two kata, but only to a minimal extent. There seemed to be a lot of travel in the forms without much substance and questioned the validity of the strikes or lack of. Many of those forms conditioned you to believe that one strike would be enough.

I was disillusioned and believed that I could defend myself back then until one day I got grabbed by the shirt facing a punch, and on another occasion, I was in a headlock and at a loss for words...

I was in a style that didn't prepare me to deal with those situations. In my mind, I contemplated punching or kicking my opponent and hoping that would be enough, but my opponent was not a killer, just some school yard bully. At the time I knew nothing of lone kimono, grip of death, etc. I trained for 3 years in that style and really didn't know what to do. I was never taught any situation specific techniques other than for a straight punch.

I am no expert, but after seeing the differences in styles, can say that I found something special in the Ed Parker's system.

If you enjoyed Statue of the Crane, I would definately recommend checking out short form two and long form two, as well as short and long form one. I feel those four forms encompass more useful concepts than learned in my previous style.

I am passionate about my new style and hope others would check out Ed Parker's Kenpo.

 

[fnorfurfoot]

In looking at the meanings of the various words ...

• statue
  • A three-dimensional form or likeness sculpted, modeled, carved, or cast in material such as stone, clay, wood, or bronze.
  • A sculpture representing a human or animal
• statute
  • A law enacted by a legislature.
  • A decree or edict, as of a ruler.
  • An established law or rule, as of a corporation.
• stature
  • The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position.
  • An achieved level; status.

... using the word "Statue" would imply a pose, no movement. I can make no sense of using the word "Statute", maybe someone out there can do so. The word "Stature" would make the most sense and is the term used at USSD.

I agree with you. Using the word "statue" for a form that has you move around made no sense to me. That is what my instructor called it. When I opened my own school and spent some time looking around on the internet, I noticed "stature" used in some schools and that made more sense to me, so that is what I use.

 

[marlon]

It seems you had some crappy instruction. Shaolin kempo and its forms are all about multiple strikes



***[I saw no practicality in many of the forms up until this point with the exception of one and two kata, but only to a minimal extent. There seemed to be a lot of travel in the forms without much substance and questioned the validity of the strikes or lack of. Many of those forms conditioned you to believe that one strike would be enough.

I was disillusioned and believed that I could defend myself back then until one day I got grabbed by the shirt facing a punch, and on another occasion, I was in a headlock and at a loss for words...***

This seems to be a problem with intruction and training not the system



***I was in a style that didn't prepare me to deal with those situations. In my mind, I contemplated punching or kicking my opponent and hoping that would be enough, but my opponent was not a killer, just some school yard bully. At the time I knew nothing of lone kimono, grip of death, etc. I trained for 3 years in that style and really didn't know what to do. I was never taught any situation specific techniques other than for a straight punch.***



Again instruction seems to be the problem not the syle.



***I am no expert, but after seeing the differences in styles, can say that I found something special in the Ed Parker's system.

If you enjoyed Statue of the Crane, I would definately recommend checking out short form two and long form two, as well as short and long form one. I feel those four forms encompass more useful concepts than learned in my previous style.***




Statue of the Crane is based on an Okinawan form called Rohai. the applications and prinicples are proven and effective. I am very happy that you have found a good instructor in EPAK. I would ask that you keep an open mind about SK in that perhaps the problem was more with your instruction rather than the style...in fact take the understanding you have learned in EPAK and re do some of your SK forms and techniques from this perspective...i'll bet you find something powerful and exciting in what you have...see how you can use combination 3 against a hook punch...use 18 against a shirt grab with a punch... iam not saying leave EPAK i am saying take a fresh look at sk ... if you like...as you may understand i am passionate about my style also...



I am passionate about my new style and hope others would check out Ed Parker's Kenpo.
[/quote]

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

I was taught that the use of Staute in the name was to remind the student of balance...i have also seen the form called the unshakeable balance of the crane....remind the student of balance for themselves and the techniques in the form that use balance as a key aspect.

Respectfully,
Marlon

I agree with you. Using the word "statue" for a form that has you move around made no sense to me. That is what my instructor called it. When I opened my own school and spent some time looking around on the internet, I noticed "stature" used in some schools and that made more sense to me, so that is what I use.

 

[marlon]

I always felt that kempo was more related to Naha te than Shurei

Respectfully,
Marlon

Hi Jeff, I tried looking into that the best I could. Gm. S. George Pesare taught it to Prof. Nick Cerio who in turn taught it to Fred Villari...........The spelling that is used is Statue, which does seem to be correct when you look at the actual translation. The form is derived from Okinawan's Rohai, Ro-meaning 'heron' or heron mark, although some have refered to this form as 'Crane on a Rock' I leave that translation to Shorin ryu's No Hi, for the most common translation for Rohai is 'Symbol of the White Heron' (I also found 'Vision' of the White Heron), so I suppose one could substitute 'Symbol' for 'Statue' and 'Crane' for 'Heron', hense, 'Statue of the Crane'. Rohai was originally brought from southern China to Tomari in Okinawa. I believe it was Matsumura who passed this from on. The Chinese Kung Fu art that resembles the original Hawaiian-derived kenpo is called the 'Singing Crane' system, which is an offshoot of the same White Crane style that influenced Goju ryu. I always saw a resemblance between kempo and goju. If our Hawaiian derived kenpo actually came from Okinawan Shorei ryu Kempo Karate which I personally believe, then this system evidentally had influence on the Shorei ryu style also. The White Crane system is a closer match to our kenpo/kempo than even the Five Animal style. Much of my reference material on this particular aspect comes from Brian Baxter, an extremely knowledgable senior of Kajukenbo who also holds a sandan in Tracy's Kenpo. Last I knew Brian was a 6th in Kajukenbo. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[bujuts]

I learned two versions of this back in the day when studying Okinawan systems. One a version through the Kuniba / Teruo Hayashi line and another, a little closer to its Tomari / Naha roots (I think), through a Mabune / Shito-Ryu line.

The crane stance in each differed, but never did we learn to hold that stance for a definitive amount of time. It was, however, one of my favorite kata.

Personally though, the thrust of any "balance" of mine is the balance of my life. Mechanically speaking, balance of the bipedal creature that is a human being is simply a state of continous mechanical adjustment, and is not a good idea in a fight. So, I don't use mechanical balance in my kenpo, simply because of the physics. Even if you manage to deliver a hard, fight-stopping shot from a one-legged stance (which is questionable), there's no getting around Newton's first law. For me, balance is like jumping spinning outsdie cresecent kicks - I do not train it because I do not believe in using it in a violent engagement.

As far as the kata is concerned, I enjoyed the contact manipulation contained within it more than anything. The crane stances were to me always a pretty add on, but disfunctional against violence.

Thanks for the memories,

Salute

Steven Brown
UKF