Stats On Training

[MJS]

I was reading part 2 of an interesting article by Jim Wagner in the Mar. '08 issue of Black Belt. Part one with was featured in Feb. '08, was basically a discussion on some of his proven strategies for handling certain self defense situations. Basically, he'd given some options to attacks such as bear hugs, weapons, grappling, etc. It almost seemed like a Q&A session as well, with some questions being asked, I'm assuming by readers, and him providing an asnwer.

One part that caught my eye was when this question was asked: How do I protect my loved ones if someone threatens us on the street? Jim proceeded to reply with the following: The average criminal is more vicious than the average martial artist and usually more experienced at real world fighting. In addition, he's probably carrying and ready to use a gun, knife or impact weapon. 80% of you MA training should deal with armed attack, with only 20% focusing on empty hand.

He also went on to advocate the importance of carrying a weapon, even if its something improvised.

So, my question is 2 fold:

First, what do you feel about his comments overall? Do you feel that he's making a valid point?

Second, what do you feel about the stats that he listed? Do you agree/disagree? Why? How do you break up your training, to focus on certain areas?


Now, I'll close with this. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions. He at times may agree and at times may disagree. Whatever our views are, lets keep them civil. Please also keep in mind that Jim is one of the main RBSD guys out there, so his POV may greatly differ from others, especially if you're from a very traditional system. Additionally, any time stats are brought into the mix, I tend to view those as opinions as well. Anything can vary.

 

[MJS]

IMO, I think that there are some schools out there that are teaching things that'll probably end up getting you killed or seriously hurt. While it'll never be 100%, I think its very important to keep your training as real as possible. This can be done with scenario training, protective gear, and aliveness and realism in your technique training.

As for the stats...personally, I like to try to have an equal balance of something, rather than focus more on one area and neglect another. The odds of an attacker having a weapon are pretty high, so all the more reason to focus on some solid weapon defense.

The K.I.S.S principle comes to mind...Keep it Short and Simple! Something quick and to the point is, IMO, going to be more effective than something long and drawn out, as far as defense goes.

Overall, I think the article was a good one. I think that he made some very valid points, and its certainly something to consider adding into your own training.

 

[terryl965]

Mike I feel his point has merit and would agre 80% are ready and willing to use violence if they have to.

On the second question I have to disagree my blend would be more of a fifty- twenty-five- twenty five split and that being 50% on armed attack 25% on awareness and not being in those types of sceniios and another 25% on empty hand. I'm a big advocate on street awarenes and your surroundings.

 

[terryl965]

IMO, I think that there are some schools out there that are teaching things that'll probably end up getting you killed or seriously hurt. While it'll never be 100%, I think its very important to keep your training as real as possible. This can be done with scenario training, protective gear, and aliveness and realism in your technique training.

As for the stats...personally, I like to try to have an equal balance of something, rather than focus more on one area and neglect another. The odds of an attacker having a weapon are pretty high, so all the more reason to focus on some solid weapon defense.

The K.I.S.S principle comes to mind...Keep it Short and Simple! Something quick and to the point is, IMO, going to be more effective than something long and drawn out, as far as defense goes.

Overall, I think the article was a good one. I think that he made some very valid points, and its certainly something to consider adding into your own training.

Yes the K.I.S.S. principle is one of the best, I agree.

 

[KenpoTex]

While I don't always agree with everything Wagner has to say, in this case, I think he makes some very valid points.

"The average criminal is more vicious than the average martial artist and usually more experienced at real world fighting." I definately agree with this. It is for this reason that those who train for self defense should focus on simple "high probability" techniques and cultivate the "fighting mindset." When attacked, we are probably already at a disadvantage due to unequal inititive or a disparity of force (possibly due to an armed attacker, multiple attackers, etc.). Our training has to be realistic and relevant if we want to survive.

"In addition, he's probably carrying and ready to use a gun, knife or impact weapon." Agreed, to assume that the attacker won't have a weapon is foolish...hope for the best but TRAIN FOR THE WORST. You have to have an effective and realistic response to a weapon attack (IMO, this rules out the vast majority of the traditional techniques out there).

"80% of you MA training should deal with armed attack, with only 20% focusing on empty hand." I would guess my training is probably closer to 50/50. I don't know that you have to follow this exactly but I definately agree that weapons defense should make up a substantial portion of your training.

He also went on to advocate the importance of carrying a weapon, even if its something improvised. Once again, I agree. Carrying a weapon like a firearm, a knife, etc. gives you options that you won't have if you don't carry a weapon. I'd rather have something readily available than to try and find an improvised weapon in the heat of the moment.

 

[KenpoTex]

Mike I feel his point has merit and would agre 80% are ready and willing to use violence if they have to.

On the second question I have to disagree my blend would be more of a fifty- twenty-five- twenty five split and that being 50% on armed attack 25% on awareness and not being in those types of sceniios and another 25% on empty hand. I'm a big advocate on street awarenes and your surroundings.

in what way do you devote 25% of your training to awareness? Or were the above figures the "importance" you place on these different aspects?

 

[still learning]

Hello, Great topic! As most police will say? .....criminals are always looking for "easy" tarkets...

Most times these people will carry some kind of weapons....wouldn't you if you were going to rob/mug someone?

Most martial arts forcus more on "empty hands" techniques, our main object is "self-defence" against the average person.

Very few styles forcus on "criminals intend" or arm confrontations. We do not train like "seal teams or special forces" style of training.

Very few goes thru "real life" ...adrendene,heart pounding, out of our enviroment style training. (to learn to fight against the real thing? ....one must train in a real like situtions....THIS IS WERE BOXING IS GOOD AND MMA style of fighting is good.....so is wrestling and Judo..hand on training.

On the streets....ONE SHOULD BEWARE OF WEAPONS + anything around you or on you can be use as weapons too!

One would be foolish NOT to use something for weapons (Bruce Lee mention this too!).

Street fighing is ANYTHING GOES- No rules- just survival....use everything you can to fight back with.....

Aloha ( at the beach throw sand!)

 

[Yari]

........
So, my question is 2 fold:

First, what do you feel about his comments overall? Do you feel that he's making a valid point?

It got me thinking, sepcially the comment on The average criminal is more vicious than the average martial artist .
It also tells me that the confrontation taking place will have two different mindsets. One that is ready to use violence and mine (dont know were that will be, hopefully aware of the situation).

Concernign the numbers I read them more as an indication then excate reference numbers. But they ring so they give a good idea. The idea of focus on weapons is important, and maybe a question of "always expect" a weapon before, midway and at the ending of a situation. Dont ever forget it. And also your training maybe should be simple compared to how many different responses you are to "learn".

/Yari