Spinning Back Kick or Spinning Hook Kick?

[JT_the_Ninja]

Yeah we call Peet Cha gi reverse roundhouse in English. E-dan Peet Cha gi cost me a cruciate ligament when I landed.

I'll bet it did!

I'm actually not sure what the English term we use that technique is....we just always say the name, with a demonstration if people don't understand...it's kind of like a "Yeah, that move" thing: understood from its Korean name or from its extension. Which is kinda cool in it's own way, I guess.

 

[MBuzzy]

Well, after searching all of my Korean resources, the best that I can find is that the word peet - 빗 means comb...which isn't it.

Aside from that, Pegi 베기 (verb) means cut or slash...conjugated, it might get close to peet, but not exactly. It is possible that Peet is a Hanmun word, which I don't have a good resource for looking up. I'll keep looking, but as of now, I can't find a good translation. It could always just be a proper name that was given to the technique to differenciate itself from others as a unique name. Since 빋, 핏 and 핃 aren't words that I can find....I'm stumped.

 

[Bodhisattva]

The break I have to do next week is the spinning back kick, dwi tullryo chagi. It's a spinning hook kick, not this:

We almost do Chuck Liddell's version to go from orange belt to green belt. We don't do a sidekick. (Not sure what he is doing at the beginning with the sidekick - the tape was too mumbly for me to hear it.) We kick straight back. We simply call it a back kick or dwi chagi. Our proper form is to turn 180, look over our shoulder at the target, and back kick the target.

I thought there might be some confusion. What do you call the spinning hook kick? Do you call it a spinning back kick?

I don't much like to spin in a fight, personally. So no need to call it anything.

 

[Lynne]

I don't much like to spin in a fight, personally. So no need to call it anything.

I saw from your profile you do mixed martial arts. I watch the UFC when I can and notice that spins aren't very effective. They seem pretty risky.

In Tang Soo Do, we spar; we don't fight so we have a different philosophical approach than you might. Korean terminology is very important at our school and this is why I was asking the question. I realized that some schools use different Korean terminology. Also, calling a spinning hook kick a dwi dullryo (roundhouse) cha gi didn't make sense to me. I do nitpick stuff like that because it's important to know what one is doing.

When I break with the spinning hook kick next week, Master R will ask me the name of the kick and I will recite it in Korean.

Muwubu explained it perfectly. Dullryo means round motion.

Curious - do you all pronounce dullryo "tolio" (like polio). We do.

 

[Tez3]

I saw from your profile you do mixed martial arts. I watch the UFC when I can and notice that spins aren't very effective. They seem pretty risky.

In Tang Soo Do, we spar; we don't fight so we have a different philosophical approach than you might. Korean terminology is very important at our school and this is why I was asking the question. I realized that some schools use different Korean terminology. Also, calling a spinning hook kick a dwi dullryo (roundhouse) cha gi didn't make sense to me. I do nitpick stuff like that because it's important to know what one is doing.

When I break with the spinning hook kick next week, Master R will ask me the name of the kick and I will recite it in Korean.

Muwubu explained it perfectly. Dullryo means round motion.

Curious - do you all pronounce dullryo "tolio" (like polio). We do.

I've seen many spinning techniques used in MMA, spinning back fist, spinning hook kick and spinning roundhouse TKD style, they are very effective when done properly.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QiV2CU5Gb6Y

This one is guess how many types of kicks Marios does lol!

 

[Lynne]

I've seen many spinning techniques used in MMA, spinning back fist, spinning hook kick and spinning roundhouse TKD style, they are very effective when done properly.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QiV2CU5Gb6Y

This one is guess how many types of kicks Marios does lol!

Wow! Just wow...Marios is lightening fast. Shows how important it is to have a handful of very good techniques.

 

[Lynne]

I don't much like to spin in a fight, personally. So no need to call it anything.

I'll retract what I said about spin kicks after watching the video Tez submitted on Marios Z.

 

[MBuzzy]

"dull ro cha gi" doesn't actually mean "roundhouse kick", simply means "turning kick". A 'turning' kick is what we call a 'roundhouse' kick.

A dwi (back) dullro (turning) chagi (kick) can describe the back kick. I guess you could call it dwi yup chagi or tullo dwi chagi too.

Muwubu explained it perfectly. Dullryo means round motion.

Curious - do you all pronounce dullryo "tolio" (like polio). We do.

Lynne, while Muwubu's explanation was exactly right regarding the motion which the kick takes, if someone asks you what the word actually means, Master Mac is right on here. The literal translation of Dullryeo is "turning."

That is actually very close to the pronunciation, so I would say that you've got it about right. To get any closer than that, you'd need to learn Korean!

I've learned in my efforts to translate that many words don't mean what we think they mean and often, Korean have many words to describe very slightly different concepts that we usually just use the same word for.

 

[Tez3]

I'll retract what I said about spin kicks after watching the video Tez submitted on Marios Z.

Cool aren't they lol! I've seen a fair few spinning kicks used in MMA and even more in KB and Muay Thai. Even seen a spinning knee!

 

[Montecarlodrag]

I have never heard "Dwi Dullryo Cha Gi" before....

We used to call the kick that way
Several years ago, we felt the name doesn't make sense, because that particular kick does not spin, at least the one Chuck is doing. The way we do it is very straight and focused. It is more powerful and way faster. It is like a side kick but from behind. That's why we call it "Dwi Yup cha ki", meaning "reverse side kick". We aren't sure if it's correct, but it makes more sense than a spinning back kick which does not spin at all.

We make other kicks which do spin (roundhouse), but they are different.

As for the hook kick, we call it "Yup koryo cha Ki", and "Dwi koryo cha ki" (reverse). It hits with heel in both cases.

Heres a question on a different kick though... Peet Cha Gi, kind of the defining kick of Soo Bahk Do i guess.

this one, for those who dont know... it is at 3:44 in the video below...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvcrvtz46pU

I have heard it referred to as the reverse roundhouse kick in english... so why have i never heard it called "Tuel Oh Dollyro Cha Gi". What is the literal translation of "Peet"?

"peet cha ki" or Bit Cha ki, as far as WTDSA is concerned, is a like a "dollryo cha ki" but without hip and base foot turning (like the kicks you see on the average TKD fights, diagonal kicks hitting with the instep). It's more diagonal than roundhouse, like a hybrid between a front kick (ahp cha ki) and a Dollryo cha ki. It is not the kick on the video.

 

[MBuzzy]

Well, after searching all of my Korean resources, the best that I can find is that the word peet - 빗 means comb...which isn't it.

Aside from that, Pegi 베기 (verb) means cut or slash...conjugated, it might get close to peet, but not exactly. It is possible that Peet is a Hanmun word, which I don't have a good resource for looking up. I'll keep looking, but as of now, I can't find a good translation. It could always just be a proper name that was given to the technique to differenciate itself from others as a unique name. Since 빋, 핏 and 핃 aren't words that I can find....I'm stumped.

Well, I asked a Korean speaker (I know I'm a little late...) and they said that Peet Cha Ki translates roughly to "Twisting motion" or "twisting kick."

And I know that it is often referred to as the "defining kick of TSD." I have been it is obviously present in many other style, we simply emphasize it more than other styles. I was once told that Peet Cha Gi only exists in Soo Bahk Do and that no other styles do it....I'm not sure how widespread that idea is, but it is obviously not true.

 

[DMcHenry]

I agree - I first remember seeing that kick over 30 years ago by a Shorin-ryu practioner kicking at the knee. It was a LONG time after that that I ever saw a TSD player performing that kick. I also remember the ads for I think Choi Kwang Do (or something like that) where the only photos they showed was the GM kicking someone in the face with that kick.

I don't believe it is exclusive to TSD, nor do I think it's a defining kick for TSD. Of course it is used in the SBD emblem with HK & HCH on it. Do you remember seeing that kick much 'before' that SBD emblem?

 

[Tez3]

There's not a kick in TSD that I hadn't done before in Wado Ryu but there are kicks in the latter I haven't done in TSD.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

There's not a kick in TSD that I hadn't done before in Wado Ryu but there are kicks in the latter I haven't done in TSD.

For example?

 

[Tez3]

Inverted crescent kick for one.

The jump kicks too, in TSD they are just done as jumping scissors kicks whereas they are also done in Wado as straight jumping kicks.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Inverted crescent kick for one.

The jump kicks too, in TSD they are just done as jumping scissors kicks whereas they are also done in Wado as straight jumping kicks.

(1) Do elaborate on the inverted crescent kick...I'm intrigued.

(2) Watch your generalizations. My school (I balk at saying all of the ITF as an example of taking my own advice) does jump front kicks by raising the one knee, then pushing off and bringing up the other knee and kicking...a jumping front kick. We do sometimes practice scissor-style double-kicks, but the general case is just the single jump front kick.

 

[Tez3]

(1) Do elaborate on the inverted crescent kick...I'm intrigued.

(2) Watch your generalizations. My school (I balk at saying all of the ITF as an example of taking my own advice) does jump front kicks by raising the one knee, then pushing off and bringing up the other knee and kicking...a jumping front kick. We do sometimes practice scissor-style double-kicks, but the general case is just the single jump front kick.

Excuse me?
What you have described as a jump front kick is a jumping scissors front kick in Wado, a jumping front kick in Wado is jumping straight up and kicking without bringing the other leg up.

I don't know what you are describing as scissor kicks.

 

[JoelD]

this is what JT is talking about... jumping front kick in Soo Bahk Do (Tang Soo Do)....

The following is what i always thought a scissor kick was.... (first kick in the vid).. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTW6TBi5MI&feature=related

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Thanks for the vid, JoelD.

By "scissor kick," Tez3, I thought you meant a move where both legs kick -- the one foot comes up and kicks, then the other comes up and kicks -- a scissor motion. The jump front kick we practice doesn't have that scissor motion; one knee comes up as you jump (for height), and then the other foot (the actual launching foot) kicks. I can sort of imagine jumping with both feet and then kicking with one, but it doesn't seem to me that would be very powerful, or anything but awkward. If you could give me a vid, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, though.

 

[Tez3]

this is what JT is talking about... jumping front kick in TSD....

The following is what i always thought a scissor kick was.... (first kick in the vid).. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTW6TBi5MI&feature=related

The first is what I know in Wado as a jumping scissors kick and what I do in TSD as a front jump kick.

The second looks like a bad double front kick.This is how I know it.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I2FRoH1nOIc&feature=related


I've been looking for the Wado jumping front kick but can't find one, it's the same as if you were doing it without the jump, only you jump straight up and kick. It can be done just eas easily with either leg, front or back.