Sparring the "Petrified Man"

[Sam]

We have a blackbelt at my school who is an awesome fighter and the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet.

The man is made of steel. It's an ongoing joke, that he is the "petrified man". We had a member of our NFL football team train at our studio... and he was scared of him. He was the one who gave him the nickname.

Usually I am a pretty agressive fighter, but not with this guy. He doesn't mean to, but he hits very hard. The thing is, that is him, WITH control.
I have never been hit full power by this man, but what I have gotten has been enough to knock me on my *** or bruise terribly. There is no point kicking him, because he doesn't move back. And its a bad idea to go hands on him, because he will have an automatic defense... and those are the ones he isnt thinking about, so they are very hard. He has an opening that he always leaves where I can wheel kick him, but after doing that a few times he will turn his shoulder away into a kicking stance and close it.

The worst of all is his spinning rear kick. He doesnt get his head around enough to see it and I almost always end up getting kicked in the bladder. That is a new kind of pain.

The thing is, if you surprise him, you will be hit very hard. Not maliciously, but that is his automatic reaction. And if you don't surprise him, it means he's winning.

Is there anyway to fight this guy so we both get something out of it?

 

[Swordlady]

OKay...it's been years since I sparred empty-handed. What I used to do whenever sparring with someone much larger and stronger than me (which was about 90% of the class - lol) was attempt to move in quickly - a short quick block followed by some kind of close attack (usually a punch or an elbow). Basically, move in quickly, block and attack, and immediately drop back. Forget about kicking; no way I was going to get close enough to land a blow. If I *did* try to kick, it was a low feint to the shin immediately followed by a high kick to the head (same leg). Feinting is a pretty good tactic to try too.

 

[Grenadier]

Here's a suggestion that comes from my experience with a similar type of person:

Have him start by working sparring drills where the goal is to make decent surface contact (a decent tap, but nothing brutal). Explain to him that it's all in the mentality. Hitting someone for real would be the same movement as the one used in the drill, except aimed 8-12 inches beyond.

Eventually, make it a team drill between him and another, and have them alternate back and forth, building up a good rhythm, but at the same time, maintaining decent surface contact (again, nothing penetrating). Have one start out simply with one reverse punch combined with closing the gap while the other one moves backwards, and then they switch immediately. Back and forth, back and forth, but with only one punch at a time. Once he's comfortable with this, then start giving more freedom, and work one kick at a time, again emphasizing surface contact, pull back, and flow.

It's important to get him to consistently be able to make a good surface contact hit, without knocking the other guy senseless. Now, I realize that some established folks would take offense to being told to do this kind of drill, but in the end, it helps them in other ways, too, by improving timing, improving footwork, and conditioning.

He's always going to be a heavyweight fighter, and probably won't be one to move around a whole heck of a lot, but he'll certainly appreciate the improvement.

 

[Sam]

Grenadier - sounds like a good drill, but I'm not an instructor... just another student.
Swordlady - his reverse punch is automatic. I've been punched in the nose on a weekly basis, because my usual method is to just do what I want to do and get the tar beaten out of me. I ususally score first, but he definitely scores harder.

 

[arnisador]

The trick here is to make him gun-shy. When he punches, move your arm so he punches you in the elbow (FMA limb destruction, for example). When he kicks, drop your elbow or raise your knee so as to intercept his leg painfully (JKD interception, for example). In general, play defensively for a bit and insure that the harder he hits, the more it hurts him. This should get him to be a bit more wary.

Does he over-commit? If so, he may be unbalanced forward and you may be able to jerk him off-balance or maneuver around him while his weight is shifted onto one foot. It's not quite as effective in changing his habits but can still be unnerving to him, and he'll want to adjust to guard against it.

I remembering sparring someone like this at a karate school I attended way back when Jimmy Carter was president. Whenever my opponent kicked at me, I punched him in the shin...hard. It left me open to some head shots, and was painful on my hand too, but a few days of this left him much less willing to throw those mule-kicks at me because I had focused on defending them in a way that really was uncomfortable for him. It would've been a bad strategy on my part if I only ever sparred him once, at a tournament, but as I sparred him weekly--an iterated game, as they say--it was a good investment, that paid dividends.

I think he married the instructor's daughter.

 

[matt.m]

Sparring with people like that is definitely tough....stick and move. Try that, if he can't hit you he can't hurt you

 

[Phadrus00]

Sam,

You have a pretty taught problem. I think arnisador is right though, your best option is to Marry the Instructor's Daughter.. *grin*

Seriously though, as arnisador pointed out, limb destruction or "defanging the snake" may be a great option here. The Extremities and the nerve centers that you target are very susceptible to attack and typically are not readily conditionable (the brachial plexus pretty much ALWAYS hurts when you nail it!). So while he may be the Man of Steel at his core and head, I suspect he is still the Fella of Flesh in his hands, arms and shins. Attacking these (in a controlled manner of course) could allow you to at the least stop him from dominating and perhaps even give you a new line of attack he can't defend as easily as he seems to do to your current arsenal. In most of the Filipino systems this is referred to as Gunting and it is a very good tool to have at your disposal.

Good Luck,

Rob

 

[John Bishop]

First off, from looking at your profile, your a 17 year old female green belt student. The problem is not yours, it's your instructors control of his/her class.
Anyone who is ready to strap on a black belt should have control. And the common sense to know that they can't spar the 17 year old female color belts the same as they spar the black belts. There's nothing wrong with moderate to full contact sparring, if the people are equally matched, and they both agree with the level of contact. But a color belt student learns absolutely nothing by having a black belt pound on them.
Anytime you spar with a black belt they should be teaching you something more then just how to take a beating. And also they should be learning how to be a better instructor from the experience.

 

[Kacey]

Sam -

I agree with John Bishop - if this man is a black belt, then his control is lacking, and that is his fault, and his instructor's for not correcting his control - if he is truly 'controlling' his techniques, then he should not regularly be dropping or seriously bruising you. Also, if his response is automatic, then it is not controlled - and it needs to be. He's going to hit someone less capable of taking it, and/or less accepting of being hit that hard, and someone will be seriously injured - either the person he hits, or the person who ups the power in response to this black belt's use of force - and unless someone senior to him explains it to him - soon - he won't understand why. Speak to your instructor or someone else in your class who is senior to this person soon. Also, if he is using this much power with you, chances are he's doing it with other people - you might check around and see if others have the same concern.

 

[bydand]

I couldn't agree more with both John Bishop and Kacey. If the guy is a black belt, he should have better control. As for an automatic response, that is fine if you were suddenly starting a sparing match out on the street with no warning, but you are in a controlled environment where someone at that level should be able to tone it down a notch or two. My instructor/brother is someone who you couldn't PAY me to suprise out of the Dojo for fear of getting my butt handed to me before it dawned on him who it was. Inside the Dojo is a totally different thing though, you can practice with him and if you leave an opening you feel this almost Kitten breath on the side of your head and get a sly grin with him saying "that would hurt". If someone who has every reason to belt the snot out of me (I was horrible to my little brother growing up) can use that forum to help me learn, any BB should be able to do the same.

I would talk to the instructor and see if there is something they can do/say to have this guy mellow out a bit.

 

[Grenadier]

but I'm not an instructor... just another student.

Ah, I see. Well, if it's of any value, you sound like an instructor. Let's hope that becomes the case!

Anyways, my apologies on making that assumption. Kacey, John, and bydand have all pointed out a very important factor here; if he's a black belt, then he should have enough sense to make adjustments to the respective partner, defaulting to the lowest common denominator.

If his partner wants to go at it hard, then it's a different situation entirely from the case where his partner does NOT want to go hard. It's his responsibility, both as an example, and more importantly, as a fellow partner, to scale back as needed.

This is a matter for the instructor to handle, if you want to go through the proper channels. Kumite / sparring is still a drill that requires teamwork in terms of communicating with each other, even if it's through unspoken words.

 

[trueaspirer]

I don't have that much experience sparring big guys...but from what limited experience I have, just keep moving. Move around him, don't let him get a target. Eventually, after a while of this, most people drop their guard, even just for a moment. That moment is all you need. Be on the lookout for this, while you are "dancing" around him, avoiding getting hit.
Basically, be a snake. Play defensively, then suddenly strike.

 

[Sam]

Just so you who asked know, I am both the lowest ranked and smallest person he is "allowed" to spar. I don't take it personally when he hits me too hard, and I don't whine about it. I also don't dance around the ring like a doe because I am scared to be hit.

I am almost positive if I said something to my instructors, immediately he wouldnt be allowed to spar with me.

This thought just occured to me - do you think its possible my instructors have me spar him to toughen me up a bit? The next belt for me is one where anyone is allowed to hit you in the face. Perhaps they were getting me used to it?

 

[Adept]

It's possible. I think it speaks very well for you that, even though you are taking a 'pounding' you want to continue sparring this man.

Unfortunately, your options are limited. He is bigger, stronger and (probably) faster, and more skilled. Given the discrepancies in skill level (green belt vs black belt) you can't really use skill as an equaliser.

My advice in that situation would be to work on your tactics, not your techniques. Use feints, counter attacks, parries and ripostes. Work on timing and distance. Don't be afraid of dancing around out of his range; getting hit just to show you're not afraid is never a good idea in the ring, or on the street. Make him work to land those hits.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

John Bishop and others have made a very good point about this guys control. Simple fact is whether its a accident or not he's a black belt and needs to control the technique. I on a occasion will give the students a little tap not hard enough to bruise them but enough they know they got hit. But this guy is hittin' to hard.

As far as how to fight him well I would really have to see him fight to answer that.

 

[MJS]

We have a blackbelt at my school who is an awesome fighter and the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet.

The man is made of steel. It's an ongoing joke, that he is the "petrified man". We had a member of our NFL football team train at our studio... and he was scared of him. He was the one who gave him the nickname.

Usually I am a pretty agressive fighter, but not with this guy. He doesn't mean to, but he hits very hard. The thing is, that is him, WITH control.
I have never been hit full power by this man, but what I have gotten has been enough to knock me on my *** or bruise terribly. There is no point kicking him, because he doesn't move back. And its a bad idea to go hands on him, because he will have an automatic defense... and those are the ones he isnt thinking about, so they are very hard. He has an opening that he always leaves where I can wheel kick him, but after doing that a few times he will turn his shoulder away into a kicking stance and close it.

The worst of all is his spinning rear kick. He doesnt get his head around enough to see it and I almost always end up getting kicked in the bladder. That is a new kind of pain.

The thing is, if you surprise him, you will be hit very hard. Not maliciously, but that is his automatic reaction. And if you don't surprise him, it means he's winning.

Is there anyway to fight this guy so we both get something out of it?

Sam,

I can only echo what Mr. Bishop and the others have already said. IMHO, this person is not helping you in anyway, with your development in sparring. I've sparred many lower ranked students, and I find it counter productive to use them as a punching bag. Theres nothing wrong with being able to hit hard, but when there is no control at all behind those shots, well, yes, there is something wrong with that.

Perhaps talking to him 1 on 1 after or before a class would help, by bringing his actions to his attention.

Mike