Sparring Question
- Thread starter Jusus
- Start date
With the greatest respect this is still not sparring with her! I think the best thing really is to talk to the instructor and her too. You may find she's as frustrated as I am and is pushing to get you to spar properly with her. She may not be 'beating' up on you so much as trying to get you to hit back. Also, do you have reason to think the father may get a strop on if his daughter is hit? Has he said anything before or is it just the fact he's there putting you off?
K31
Blue Belt
With respect, I agree, but neither is she sparring with him if she is intentionally trying to provoke a response. As to talking to the instructor, I'm wondering why the instructor hasn't intervened without being asked. I've seen these same things in my dojang. Someone who holds back is told by the instructor that it is okay to use the nominal amount of force for sparring and that he, the instructor will tell the student when it is too much. We also have a very tall teenage girl who's father is usually a spectator. The girl likes to throw wild techniques, can kick quite hard and has been told by the instructor on numerous occasions that if she wants to do that she can take up Olympic sparring.
bluemtn
Senior Master
Well, irregardless of what the instructor has or hasn't said- you should approach her and the instructor. Sometimes, instructors miss things like you not giving it your all. Like Tez, I've gotten frustrated when someone has "toned" down because they're fighting me, and usually I'll just tell them that it's ok to do what they normally do to another sparring partner... Yes, I still get that occasional, "it's just hard to- I've been told to never hit a girl"... Usually with that, we were able to work something out to where we both benefitted from sparring.
bluemtn
Senior Master
It's encouraged where I go, but I honestly say that he should tell her (or the instructor) what his concerns are first. Either that, or don't worry about her father. It is a sparring class, after all, and both are supposed to benefit from it, right? Personally, I wouldn't be upset if someone approached me with similar concerns, but would be more so if they just didn't do what they're supposed to. It's a hinderance for both involved.
RITFencing
Orange Belt
This is from a fencing standpoint, not an unarmed combat one, and we have much less chance of injury, so take it or leave it.
They're in the class, they signed up to take the sparring. As was stated, to not treat them as such is pretty disrespectful. I don't like it when people go easy on me, so I return the favor to everyone else. It may not be easy for you, but if you can't spar with everyone there, don't show up to the class.
Personally, I don't have much trouble fencing with girls or kids, because I've done enough mixed competition that I've been eliminated from tournaments by women and children. Losing to a 12 year old when you really want to win will really help cure you of any tendancy to "go easy on the poor little things." Nowadays I tend to dehumanize my opponents a bit, and not just so that it's easier to go after them with a pointy metal stick. I don't see a man, woman, child, whatever, on the other end of the strip. They aren't black, white, asian, hispanic, whatever. They have no gender, race, creed or religion. I see a moving target holding a weapon. It helps on many levels (for me at least) to be able to think like that. I'm not trying to physically injure them, and I don't hit any harder or softer than most other fencers, but beyond that, if they don't like it, I'm not forcing them to be there.
Again, this is not for the same activity, so your mileage may vary.
They're in the class, they signed up to take the sparring. As was stated, to not treat them as such is pretty disrespectful. I don't like it when people go easy on me, so I return the favor to everyone else. It may not be easy for you, but if you can't spar with everyone there, don't show up to the class.
Personally, I don't have much trouble fencing with girls or kids, because I've done enough mixed competition that I've been eliminated from tournaments by women and children. Losing to a 12 year old when you really want to win will really help cure you of any tendancy to "go easy on the poor little things." Nowadays I tend to dehumanize my opponents a bit, and not just so that it's easier to go after them with a pointy metal stick. I don't see a man, woman, child, whatever, on the other end of the strip. They aren't black, white, asian, hispanic, whatever. They have no gender, race, creed or religion. I see a moving target holding a weapon. It helps on many levels (for me at least) to be able to think like that. I'm not trying to physically injure them, and I don't hit any harder or softer than most other fencers, but beyond that, if they don't like it, I'm not forcing them to be there.
Again, this is not for the same activity, so your mileage may vary.
Hawke
Master Black Belt
About blocking hard....
When an opponent uses a roundhouse, I use a knee to their shin.
When an opponent uses a front kick, I use my shin against their feet.
It only hurts them if they come in hard. Not sure which blocks are acceptable or unacceptable at your TKD dojo. I train with people with an understanding that we take care of each other. I help you to be a better MA and you help me be a better MA and if any of us starts acting like a jerk we will straight up and tell you. We get bruises, but we are still buddies. Danny Insanto once said, "If you swim, you will get wet."
Hope things clear up for you. Your dojo should be a safe place to train. Better to cry in the dojo so you can laugh in the streets.
When an opponent uses a roundhouse, I use a knee to their shin.
When an opponent uses a front kick, I use my shin against their feet.
It only hurts them if they come in hard. Not sure which blocks are acceptable or unacceptable at your TKD dojo. I train with people with an understanding that we take care of each other. I help you to be a better MA and you help me be a better MA and if any of us starts acting like a jerk we will straight up and tell you. We get bruises, but we are still buddies. Danny Insanto once said, "If you swim, you will get wet."
Hope things clear up for you. Your dojo should be a safe place to train. Better to cry in the dojo so you can laugh in the streets.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
The situation may be something that you are getting tired of but, in the end, it one you are creating. She's a red belt, your schools spars. She's probably been hit before and clearly her father had no problems then.
You need to get yourself past the thoughts that you might hurt her or offend her father and just spar. Better for you and better for her.
searcher
Senior Master
IMO, you are both not getting what you need here. You are both there to train andto gain skills that you both think are important. If you are not sparringwith her and you are being a mobile bag, she is not getting the contact that she needs to advance and you are not gettig the chance to work on your skills. Don't think or worry about the father. If he says something about you going hard with her you need to tell him that this IS a contact sport it is essential to hit and be hit. All that is happening, is she is being turned into a paper tiger. It is truly a disservice to her and to you.
I am not saying you should try to destroy and hurt or destroy the girl, but you need to go hard for you and for her. If the father has a problem with this, he needs to put her in a dance school and not a TKD school.
I am not saying you should try to destroy and hurt or destroy the girl, but you need to go hard for you and for her. If the father has a problem with this, he needs to put her in a dance school and not a TKD school.
zDom
Senior Master
When I spar, contact level is always determined by my opponent: I am happy to go as light or as heavy as they desire.
Intensity, however, is always there. I always throw enough techniques to push them, to keep them challenged.
But then, I also back off now and then, give them a chance to initiate some attacks.
I think there has to be a balance between overwhelming them and cheating them of a good challenge.
Intensity, however, is always there. I always throw enough techniques to push them, to keep them challenged.
But then, I also back off now and then, give them a chance to initiate some attacks.
I think there has to be a balance between overwhelming them and cheating them of a good challenge.
I believe this was an important piece to this whole puzzle and may have gotten over looked... I think this is the most respectful approach and will be the end all solution. It gives a chance for mutual respect and prevents the problem Tez encountered where the sparring partner simply refused to spar... Its one thing not to hit a female.. but that has its own context.. its not as if you are out to batter a female with rage or malice as your intent... This is a controlled training within a controlled enviroment.
I have never hit a woman outside of the confines of the dojo... but when in the dojo.. the controlled firmness that I use on the guys is the same firmness I use on females... and they give it back to the same degree... If the hits are to aggressive against guy or girl.. they are sure to tell you and likewise you shouldn't be afraid to speak up if you think that their hits are a bit out of control or to physical for sparring... Control is not that easy to keep consistant and we all have slip ups where we perform an action with more power than we meant to put behind it....
Anyway I done ranting on. lol Good luck and just keep in mind that she isn't a child so don't be afraid to talk to her.. Only she knows what she is capable of enduring.. not her father or teacher.
NDNgirl4ever
Green Belt
I agree with everyone else. I'm a 19 year old female in karate. I spar with men and would feel insulted and cheated if a man was afraid to spar with me because I'm a girl. I'm in the class to learn to defend myself, after all. You are not doing her any favors by totally holding back. You're both there to learn to defend yourselves, right? How can she learn to defend herself properly if you don't throw proper techinques at her? She needs to learn to defend against attacks, and how to take a hit. Any person on the street who attacks her isn't going to be gentle. She and her family are aware of what they are doing and have agreed to take the risk. If she or her father object to her being hit, they have no buisness taking a martial arts class. You need to use control with all sparring partners, no matter their age or gender, but you should not be afraid to use the techiques you've been taught.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
Thank you, Suke. Have known this for a long time, but could never seem to articulate it without fear of offending (and my daughter would be the first to roast me if she found out I butchered the explanation).I don't disagree with any of the advice given so far ... at an intellectual level.
As we've touched on before in similar threads, many of we poor chaps in our middle years and on, were raised in an environment where to lay violent hands on a woman was as severely frowned upon as ... well ... analogies fail me here so I'll just say that it was seen as being less than 'manly', a hefty breach of civilised behaviour.
This is not something we can put aside easily. Even now, after many years in martial arts, I still find it very distasteful if kata requires me to have to physically 'manhandle' one of my female fellow students (especially my friend Kate, who is a tiny lass {tho' a second dan karateka as well as shodan MJER}).
I do take the points made that the ladies can quite easily take such a 'soft' approach to be disrespectful, even if they know it's actually the reverse but sometimes we 'socially conflicted' males need a break too.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
I agree zDom. But you're an experienced and skilled fighter. The OP mentioned a green belt. Remember when? :ultracool Much more difficult to keep it all straight, don't you think?
zDom
Senior Master
True ... good point.
