Martial Arts Colony, The Return

[tshadowchaser]

Back in the 70's i was involved with a few communes that where around at the time. These where peaceful, loveing people that worked to support the commune. The money they made went to buy food, clothing, land, etc. not only for the commune but for those in need.
Now as peaceful as they where the people in them where dispised and feared by many of the locals. The polica keep a close watch on them all the time. The members where refused entrance to many places within the local towns. And yes, the goverment but local, state, and federal had people join the commune so that they could keep close watch on what was going on and the revenue that might be coming in.
Now these where peaceful folks, so with all the problems they had how do you think one that taught martial arts would be viewed

 

[Guardian]

I don't know about this colony business, I have to agree with some of the others, it could be considered a cult in some ways and people would look at it that way or at least they would wonder and I just can't see it being a constructive way doing it, not on the scale that you are speaking of.

 

[jks9199]

This has gotten entirely out of control. Putting a happy face on a business enterprise is always a good idea for many reasons, as is keeping peace with one's neighbors. Surely the sheriff would be out at some time to say "Hi!' and introduce himself while looking around. But I can't believe the argument is "Don't let too many martial artists congregate in one place or a cult will break out!" All this cult talk (and not just the post I quoted) is absurdly exaggerated. New mosques are being constructed in this country, Shaolin temples, boxing gyms, gun clubs, huge martial arts studios...this is is not that hard. And no, the FBI will not come knocking on your door unless you advertise that you're teaching people how to use high-powered explosives.

I'm not.

This idea is probably unrealistic on financial grounds without a dedicated backer who has a personal interest in the martial arts, or possibly if one finds a disadvantaged but usable piece of property that can be had, and renovated, very cheaply. But to say "the set up lends itself to the formation of a destructive cult" that would invite federal attention as a terrorism concern is simply uninformed by the facts. Any sufficiently charismatic person can begin a cult anywhere. If the situation was as bad as described here, the FBI would need to double in size just to investigate all the YMCAs in the U.S., which more-or-less meet a similar description (living there, all male, fitness training, etc.).

To say about this idea that "It's not really any different on the surface than, say, several white supremacist compounds" is patently absurd. On the surface, one is for training martial artists and the other is a KKK meeting. Those are not morally equivalent, and law enforcement officers--who frequently train in the martial arts--understand the difference.

I find the level of negativity here, and the dearth of constructive criticism, distressing.

In response to specific questions and concerns, I said that ON THE SURFACE it would resemble white supremacist compounds, as well as the compounds of many militia groups, so-called "constitutionalists" and more.

Once looked at more closely, of course it wouldn't. But, in that first look? You've got a group of people, living together, training for combat... Yeah, that's going to get looks. Especially if starts as described, with living quarters, etc.

And, just like college campuses, it'd be fertile ground for an abusive individual to take advantage of. With care, it could probably be set up with checks and balances to prevent that. Some ideas would include limited stays, or a board of visitors that assesses it, lots of openness, and care to be sure there's no pressure about staying or leaving. But it's scary how fast things can develop, and how easily you can buy into dangerous and destructive steps in a capsulized environment like that. (You might want to look at the Stanford Prison Experiment. It's not an exact analogy, but it wouldn't take much in a setting as described to have something recognizably similar happen.)

It's a neat idea, and if it were to start in what's a more realistic and organic manner, I think it's actually doable.

Start simple; set up a facility (I think that there's at least one like this in Japan) where multiple martial arts can be taught, seminars held, training floor space rented, and so forth. Kind of like the gym someone else floated recently. I think a kitchen facility is a great idea; one of the biggest disruptions to a clinic, in my opinion, is the lunch break! With time and popularity, add what would amount to some hotel or barracks-type dorms for people to crash in while they're training. Eventually, add some long-term residents, maybe MMA fighters preparing for a fight, etc.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Actually - that brings up another point......you want to do this for real, another way to do it without sending up the red flags to the community and government is to add a hostel like Arnisador referred to or a hotel on site or attached.

Something else to think about to get around the public perception is simply the use of the term "colony." It sounds good in theory.....but doesn't sound good to people who don't know your intent.

Well, the reason for the community kitchen is because I don't imagine too many people would want to really live in such a place, moire like stay for a few days to maybe a month or so.

So, whats a good word to substitute for "colony"...

 

[CuongNhuka]

but the less open and less willing let you examine other ideas or leave, the more worrisome.

Well, if (like I said) this would end up almost like a hotel, then people could come and go as they please. Many instructors would teaching little more then seminars, which means there would a constant in-flow of outside oppions and ideas. That doesn't sound like what you're talking about, know does it?

 

[Kacey]

Well, the reason for the community kitchen is because I don't imagine too many people would want to really live in such a place, moire like stay for a few days to maybe a month or so.

So, whats a good word to substitute for "colony"...

If you're talking about short-term stays (which wasn't clear in your original post, which accounts for some of the responses), then it should be something like "training facility".

What you're going to have to watch, I suspect, is how you name in terms of using phrases like "multiple martial arts", lest you end up unintentionally reducing your audience. Many people (myself among them) would like to experience at least some cross-training - but if you label your facility any name that can be confused with MMA, you may limit your participants to those who are in MMA, rather than the broader grouping of people who are in a one, or a few, MAs, and would like to broaden their training.

 

[CuongNhuka]

And yes, the goverment but local, state, and federal had people join the commune so that they could keep close watch on what was going on and the revenue that might be coming in.

I wouldn't mind haveing police officers join. Infact, I would offer reduced rates to the cops! Wait, does that make me look worse?

Besides, I'm talking makeing this sorta like a YMCA, why would this be such a bad thing in the eyes of the law?

 

[CuongNhuka]

a board of visitors that assesses it, lots of openness, and care to be sure there's no pressure about staying or leaving ...

It's a neat idea, and if it were to start in what's a more realistic and organic manner, I think it's actually doable.

I said somewhere earlier that I would set up a like a board of governers, and since I don't imagine too many people would want to stay for more then a month or so, there would be no real "Live here, or go to -you know where-!"

Your input is valued, and will be taken up for consideration at the next board meeting (LOL)

 

[CuongNhuka]

What you're going to have to watch, I suspect, is how you name in terms of using phrases like "multiple martial arts", lest you end up unintentionally reducing your audience.

OK, how about "offering training in various traditional, western, and non-traditional martial arts. all styles are in differnit classes, sign up as you wish." for the main ad?
and something like "large training area, with almost all needs meet, available for seminars or the like" as the ad for 'we can host your seminars'

Like? questions, comments, concerns?

 

[Cruentus]

OK, help me be realistic without crushing my little hopes and dreams like all the other big scarry adults!

lol.

O.K., the key would be to have a facility that offers regular classes, like a school, but also offers camps and "stay overnight" training opportunities where people could come from out of town, take private lessons and classes, and stay in the facility.

You would have training space, plus sleeping quarters and bathroom facilities, etc.

This would marry the idea between "school" and "community" where people can stay overnight and have a really great experience.

This has also been done before, and very effectively. Dan Severn is a very stand-up guy, and offers a similar experience out in Coldwater, MI: http://www.dansevern.com/msc.htm

See, when you get into the whole "colony" or "commune" thing, you get into the financial and logistic questions of where are people going to live, and how are they going to make money to sustain the 'business' and themselves? What would be their motivation to give up the freedoms of being on their own for living in a 'martial art commune'? The answer means that it either won't work at all, or you have to set up a cult-like atmosphere for it to work.

So, your best bet would be to dump the commune idea, and go with simply putting up a really cool overnight training facility.

 

[Blindside]

So, whats a good word to substitute for "colony"...

How about "retreat."

 

[Rich Parsons]

lol.

O.K., the key would be to have a facility that offers regular classes, like a school, but also offers camps and "stay overnight" training opportunities where people could come from out of town, take private lessons and classes, and stay in the facility.

You would have training space, plus sleeping quarters and bathroom facilities, etc.

This would marry the idea between "school" and "community" where people can stay overnight and have a really great experience.

This has also been done before, and very effectively. Dan Severn is a very stand-up guy, and offers a similar experience out in Coldwater, MI: http://www.dansevern.com/msc.htm

See, when you get into the whole "colony" or "commune" thing, you get into the financial and logistic questions of where are people going to live, and how are they going to make money to sustain the 'business' and themselves? What would be their motivation to give up the freedoms of being on their own for living in a 'martial art commune'? The answer means that it either won't work at all, or you have to set up a cult-like atmosphere for it to work.

So, your best bet would be to dump the commune idea, and go with simply putting up a really cool overnight training facility.

I have seen Dan's Place. It is not a 5 star hotel. The places for people to sleep are bunk beds. The place to eat has a kitchen, but usually it is not fired up unless there are numbers to worry about. Otherwise it is cheaper to either bring the food prepared in or to just let the individuals go out and get theri own. But, the place is nice. I like it. One could even say I was jealous of it. Dan being a nice guy he would understand my comments.


The idea of saving up $xx,000 and then giving it to someone so they can live and train, is the idea behind most cults as has been pointed out here. The idea of camps and retreats where people come and go as they see fit, and can pay for the training, is understandable by the population. I mean for the one guy who won lotto and moves and trains 24/7 for a year people know where his money comes from. The rest of us have to work to get money to keep the business and the machine of the economy going.

 

[CuongNhuka]

O.K., the key would be to have a facility that offers regular classes, like a school, but also offers camps and "stay overnight" training opportunities where people could come from out of town, take private lessons and classes, and stay in the facility.

I've said that would be the basic idea... infact, I think I said it a couple of times... either way. I might have to look at that gentlemans set up...

 

[CuongNhuka]

The idea of saving up $xx,000 and then giving it to someone so they can live and train, is the idea behind most cults as has been pointed out here. The idea of camps and retreats where people come and go as they see fit, and can pay for the training, is understandable by the population. I mean for the one guy who won lotto and moves and trains 24/7 for a year people know where his money comes from. The rest of us have to work to get money to keep the business and the machine of the economy going.

I never said you had to give up your cash. I even said you would have to pay rent (slightly cheaper then in the city)

 

[Rich Parsons]

I never said you had to give up your cash. I even said you would have to pay rent (slightly cheaper then in the city)

Sir, I did not mean to imply you stated this. Only that with the terms Colony or commune or such many will take it as such. I know this has been addressed, it was just another point of reference for you to consider about perception.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Well, that is true...