You're in good company, Gerry, Bill Wallace never wore a cup either.
Sparring - Gear or No Gear?
- Thread starter Gerry Seymour
- Start date
You're in good company, Gerry, Bill Wallace never wore a cup either.
CB Jones
Senior Master
And keeps the consequences of that in a jar.
Bill Wallace lost one of the boys due to sparring and one of his friends Glen Keeney lad lost one within a few months (I think) before him due to sparring.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I'll put another rocking chair on the porch and you need to start practicing in your best nasty old geezer voice..."Hey you kids, GIT OFFA MY LAWN"
And I have never worn a cup either, got hit before, did not like it, but I do not like a cup either. Just had to get better at blocking
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
OP
OP
Yeah, but really, who was gonna kick him in the groin?
JR 137
Grandmaster
The first time I wore a cup was my first stint in karate. That was after HS sports - soccer, football, and wrestling. I hated wearing it too. Uncomfortable, shifting, pinching, etc. After I got used to it, I can’t suit up without it. The 2-3 times I haven’t worn it since, I felt like I’m flopping around (TMI?) and like the boys are a target just waiting to get hit like Master Ken when he speed bags Todd’s nuts.
It’s honestly like a seatbelt. I never wore on growing up. The seatbelt law wasn’t put in place until I was in around 3rd grade or so, and everyone ignored it for quite some time. It wasn’t until I started driving that I actually started wearing it consistently. Now? I can’t drive or sit in the front passenger seat without it. Moving a car from point A to B without it on feels weird. We drive to Maine for vacation every other year, passing through New Hampshire. NH doesn’t have a seatbelt law, so I take it off just to remember what it was like without wearing one. That lasts about 2 minutes because I just don’t feel comfortable. Sounds stupid, but it is what it is.
It’s honestly like a seatbelt. I never wore on growing up. The seatbelt law wasn’t put in place until I was in around 3rd grade or so, and everyone ignored it for quite some time. It wasn’t until I started driving that I actually started wearing it consistently. Now? I can’t drive or sit in the front passenger seat without it. Moving a car from point A to B without it on feels weird. We drive to Maine for vacation every other year, passing through New Hampshire. NH doesn’t have a seatbelt law, so I take it off just to remember what it was like without wearing one. That lasts about 2 minutes because I just don’t feel comfortable. Sounds stupid, but it is what it is.
OP
OP
I have a couple that should be more comfortable. I just haven't found a carrier I like. Compression shorts seem the natural option to me, but I haven't found any I like that have a carrier in them. Duct tape seems a poor choice. I'll likely start requiring them for relatively new students, and just let them decide later if they prefer to do without. Still debating that.
marques
Master Black Belt
I have been using gloves and shin guards. Gloves range from tiny MMA to Boxing gloves. I prefer the smallest, but it requires control and precision from both sides.
Contact level usually moderate, except when angry people break the rules. Head contact sometimes not allowed. IMO, any strike below the neck show be painful enough to tell one he was hit and the other one how good or bad was the strike, but controlled enough to avoid damage.
No gloves would be interesting for self defence and open hands. Harder contact eventually needed for testing or competitors training.
CB Jones
Senior Master
The dojo Jacob trains at has a reputation for groin kicking if you throw lots of kicking at them. Jacob and the sensei's son even plays a game when sparring called jingle balls where only groin kicks score.
@gpseymour .... Cant find one you like...may I suggest....
It's even bulletproof.
@gpseymour .... Cant find one you like...may I suggest....
It's even bulletproof.
Oni_Kadaki
Green Belt
At my karate school, we theoretically hit for body only, 50-75%, wearing very minimal padding on our firsts. If we happen to be wearing groin cups and/or mouthguards, all the better!
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
My Jujutsu school in the early 70s. We wore no protective gear (unless you count the thicker judo style gi) and had no mats, only a thin wall to wall carpet on a hard word floor surrounded by fencing foils and fencing masks. And we sparred too.
My TKD school in the mid to late 70s, we had no mats, not even a carpet, just a tile floor and no protective gear either. And we had kicks, punches, throws, take downs and sparring
We got hurt, bruised, cut and generally beat up. It is how we trained, because.... we were idiots. I would not let any of my kids train like that today.
My TKD school in the mid to late 70s, we had no mats, not even a carpet, just a tile floor and no protective gear either. And we had kicks, punches, throws, take downs and sparring
We got hurt, bruised, cut and generally beat up. It is how we trained, because.... we were idiots. I would not let any of my kids train like that today.
OP
OP
Yeah, there were things I did when training that I simply wouldn't have students do now. Most of it was "because I could" or "because we didn't have that" stuff.
Oh, I know, he told me about it several times. And he had some funny stories about the recovery, which I'll just leave as that. I had always worn a cup anyway, and I mean always.
And it's partly why all my students had to wear a cup in every class, it was as much a part of the uniform as your belt and pants were.
Anyone can kick a kicker in the groin. Ask Bill.
Orion Nebula
Green Belt
Back in the day, my school required the foam helmet, gloves, and foot protection, plus mouthpiece. Shin guards were recommended, but not many students had them because they were actually quite expensive relative to the other gear. After a very painful collision with another student's shin, I bought the shin guards. Every rank did free sparring and we did light contact, and head shots weren't allowed. We had a four week rotating schedule of kata, weapons, fitness conditioning, and sparring, so we sparred every four weeks.
My current school is definitely not big on sparring. We do 5 and 1 point sparring (basically working with a partner defending against a series of 5 or a single attack) on a regular basis, but rarely do free sparring. I have observed higher ranks free sparring (no gear and little to no contact), but I think they avoid having lower belts free spar because they don't trust us not to accidentally punch someone hard in the face.
For the college class I visit, there is sparring from time to time when the Kenpo guy leads the class. It's gear-free and light contact, and I also think that it's a mistake. Most of the students have little to no karate experience and very poor control over their bodies, and some of them are reckless and have no concept of adjusting their fighting style to accommodate opponents with differing skill levels. But so far no one has been seriously injured.
Ok, I need to ask - why is chest protection optional for men but required for women? I didn't think breasts were really an issue in terms of potential injury.
My current school is definitely not big on sparring. We do 5 and 1 point sparring (basically working with a partner defending against a series of 5 or a single attack) on a regular basis, but rarely do free sparring. I have observed higher ranks free sparring (no gear and little to no contact), but I think they avoid having lower belts free spar because they don't trust us not to accidentally punch someone hard in the face.
For the college class I visit, there is sparring from time to time when the Kenpo guy leads the class. It's gear-free and light contact, and I also think that it's a mistake. Most of the students have little to no karate experience and very poor control over their bodies, and some of them are reckless and have no concept of adjusting their fighting style to accommodate opponents with differing skill levels. But so far no one has been seriously injured.
Ok, I need to ask - why is chest protection optional for men but required for women? I didn't think breasts were really an issue in terms of potential injury.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Good question. No idea why. Our organization had a women’s committee that was set up to address the issue of enrollment being predominantly male. The committee was dissolved a few years back because they met and maintained the goal of the organization having nearly a 50/50 mix of male and female students, higher ranks and dojo owners included. Perhaps this was one of their recommendations? Just a shot in the dark.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
This is probably more of a TKD/kicking style thing. We do a lot standing of partner drills where you are only in danger of a groin shot if you are working with a kid or someone with pretty low kicks. During drills this is easy enough to deal with. If you are working with an experienced student during SD drills there are inherent risks of a low shot. Forms, no worries. Sparring is where the stakes greatly increase. I say all this to say I am a fan of the outside groin protection. I can keep it with my sparring gear and slip it on as needed. Very convenient, more comfortable than a cup (to me) , speeds up getting ready for sparring, covers more area, and I don't have to use it when I don't want to. Yea, it looks silly if a person has never seen one but I figure everything we do looks a little silly to some people.
I tried the compression shorts style and felt like my boys were in a vice for the duration of the 1 1/2 hour class.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
The dojo Jacob trains at has a reputation for groin kicking if you throw lots of kicking at them. Jacob and the sensei's son even plays a game when sparring called jingle balls where only groin kicks score.
@gpseymour .... Cant find one you like...may I suggest....
It's even bulletproof.
This groin thing is getting to be an obsession for you!
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Most certainly, and that includes the smallest of kids. When I ran our Dickson school full time I am positive my jewels became conditioned by so many kid shots. Powerful enough that I got used to a tap if I missed a block and definitely helped with getting a hard shot.
Someone was posting about kickers being at a disadvantage at groin-shot tourneys. I would aggregate that to say anyone not accustomed to groin contact could be at a disadvantage. Often times the contact is just a tap. It is as much the initial reaction of a tap to the groin that can get you in trouble, leaving you open for something much worse.
JR 137
Grandmaster
McDavid sell them with compression shorts, and I’m pretty sure Shock Doctor does too.
I bought the McDavid version but threw out the shorts after I tried them on because they didn’t fit right. I wear the old school jock strap. I used to wear a pair of spandex shorts over a jock strap and that worked out well. The spandex kept everything from sliding around.
I currently wear Nike Pro Combat compression underwear (thin and softer spandex-like) with a jock strap and cup over it. Everything stays in place. Maybe because the shorts are just the right amount of friction?
The Nike Pro Combat compression shorts/underwear are by far the most comfortable ones I’ve tried, and I’ve tried several. They used to make a version (most likely still do) with a cup pocket. I haven’t seen them nor tried them. I bought a bunch of them when I worked for in college sports at wholesale team pricing. I even stocked up right before I left, getting them at about half price. Even at their I think $25 retail, they’re worth every penny. They don’t bunch up like boxer briefs and don’t get soaked after a tough workout.
