Somebody tell me I'm full of it

[bushidomartialarts]

So I used to run a class for homeschooling kids. I used to be a supporter of homeschooling, but no longer. The kids in that class, and some young adults I've met over time, lead me to believe that homeschooling is a great way to hamstring your kids for their first decade of adult life.

I see the kids with good skills in some areas, but a terrible deficiency in breadth of knowledge.

I see terrible social skills, especially in terms of ability or willingness to negotiate with others, and of how to behave in a group environment.

I see, perhaps worst of all, a sense of entitlement, that the child is more important than anything or anyone around them. That no rules apply.

Can somebody give me a counterargument here? I'd love to hear the other hand.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So I used to run a class for homeschooling kids. I used to be a supporter of homeschooling, but no longer. The kids in that class, and some young adults I've met over time, lead me to believe that homeschooling is a great way to hamstring your kids for their first decade of adult life.

I see the kids with good skills in some areas, but a terrible deficiency in breadth of knowledge.

I see terrible social skills, especially in terms of ability or willingness to negotiate with others, and of how to behave in a group environment.

I see, perhaps worst of all, a sense of entitlement, that the child is more important than anything or anyone around them. That no rules apply.

Can somebody give me a counterargument here? I'd love to hear the other hand.

Some homeschooling environments are better than others.
Sean

 

[Steel Tiger]

Sorry mate, a program I saw recently raised all the same problems you have. In particular was the lack of social skills. There were a number of people who had been homeschooled and now realise it was a very bad decision. I suppose it will vary from place to place, but the thing that always stands out to me is the lack of contact with others. Sure there is outside school hours, but in a school environment children are together for six or so hours five days a week.

 

[Monadnock]

There's good and bad with everything. Some parents actually want more control on what gets put into their kid's heads, so they choose to homeschool. Or maybe they don't want their kids being frisked and searched without parental consent, or taught that certain behavior is OK, when it violates their family values. Or maybe they feel that public schools are inherintly unsafe as they are prime targets for shootings.

I think that most of the cons of homeschooling are more myth than fact.

I see the kids with good skills in some areas, but a terrible deficiency in breadth of knowledge.

I see terrible social skills, especially in terms of ability or willingness to negotiate with others, and of how to behave in a group environment.

I see, perhaps worst of all, a sense of entitlement, that the child is more important than anything or anyone around them. That no rules apply.

I think you'll see all the same in public schools. I know I did.

 

[Grenadier]

Some of the students at our dojo are home-schooled. Most of them actually interact very well with the others, and those that do, have no problems with social skills. One of them is even going for his shodan this August, and is going to pass with flying colors. His folks have been excellent teachers, and have kept him involved with the community on a regular basis.

It all comes down to how good of a teacher the parents can be. Some are going to be superior to ones at the schools. Some are going to be as good, while some aren't going to be quite as good.

 

[Rich Parsons]

So I used to run a class for homeschooling kids. I used to be a supporter of homeschooling, but no longer. The kids in that class, and some young adults I've met over time, lead me to believe that homeschooling is a great way to hamstring your kids for their first decade of adult life.

I see the kids with good skills in some areas, but a terrible deficiency in breadth of knowledge.

I see terrible social skills, especially in terms of ability or willingness to negotiate with others, and of how to behave in a group environment.

I see, perhaps worst of all, a sense of entitlement, that the child is more important than anything or anyone around them. That no rules apply.

Can somebody give me a counterargument here? I'd love to hear the other hand.

Not having a child makes me unable to speak form experience, but I have read that some parents network. They create joint events with other parents so the children get a chance to interact. This also if done correctly allows the parents to let go a little. i.e. a couple of the parents coudl go on the event while others stay home or do something else. This gets the children away from Mom and or Dad (* I do know some stay at home dad's who home school or at least did home pre-school *) so they can interact with other adults and learn to interact wth other children in a group setting.

Some also enroll them into soccor and other team sports so the child ends up having to learn the skills of teamwork and working with others.

Now as to exceptions to every rule:

There were people who went to the same High School I did and got worse grades but had more money and better connections who got into better colleges. There some who had really good grades who did not go to college or dropped out. As adults are individulas so are children and what works for one may nto be the same answer for another.

While in college an associate graduate wth the same degree I did. She did not have the same classes and in the end was not prepared for the work we both ended up doing right after college. We had similar grade points with the same degree. (* I did have a Math Minor *) So while two people may have looked the same on paper our experiences made us quite different.

Take my point of view and do with it as you will.

 

[Carol]

My sister and her brother-in-law homeschooled their two kids through Grade 8. They made the transition in to high school beautifully and had no issues at all adapting socially.

My nephew is very bright and has been studying for his Cisco cert. He wants to follow me in to the telecom world but he knows I'll kick his butt if he doesn't go to college first. :lol: (Ahh...the benefits of MA training...just kidding). He won at least a partial scholarship to his #1 choice and will be starting his freshman year there in September.

My niece, academically and emotionally has always been a a year or two behind the other kids, she's had some major learning disabilities to over come. She will be graduating with her class next year and already has her mind set on college as well.

I'm very proud of them both.

I don't think home-schooling leads to an entitlement mindset...I think greedy, selfish parents lead to an entitlement mindset.

Now where's that thread about the 6 year old 2nd dan....

 

[jks9199]

There's such a wide variety in how kids are homeschooled, what happens outside of "class time" and just plain kids in general that it's hard to generalize.

But I'm gonna do it anyway!

Based on my admittedly limited sample -- it's really easy for a homeschooled kid (just like an only child...) to somehow miss being a kid. I can't describe it any better; it's the kid who's more comfortable with adults than other kids. Who can go on at length about some arcane topic -- but doesn't know the things that are culturally important, like tv references or shared jokes.

Like I said, this by no means applies to any & all, but too many homeschooled kids that I've seen (and, as I said, this often applies to only children of late, as well) somehow seem like Peanuts "miniature adults" instead of the real kids of Calvin & Hobbes... to make one of those cultural comparison!

(Bill Watterson... PLEASE! We need more Calvin!)

 

[Kacey]

I don't think home-schooling leads to an entitlement mindset...I think greedy, selfish parents lead to an entitlement mindset.

This is the heart of the issue. As a middle school teacher, I've seen plenty of kids who started in home school, and whose parents decided to put them in public school for a variety of reasons, and they run the same gamut of skills and deficits, attitudes and behaviors, of the other kids in the school.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I don't think home-schooling leads to an entitlement mindset...I think greedy, selfish parents lead to an entitlement mindset.

I can only agree.

(Bill Watterson... PLEASE! We need more Calvin!)

Definitely need more Calvin.

 

[Carol]

Definitely need more Calvin.

What about Hobbes?

 

[Steel Tiger]

What about Hobbes?

I've always found Hobbes to be too pushy.

 

[tellner]

I've known a few homeschoolers. The most successful made it a cooperative venture with others in the same boat. The kids were exposed to a number of different teaching styles and interacted with the others in their group.

I've also known people who made a complete hash of it and really did hamstring their children. There was also a woman who tried very hard with her daughters. The homeschooling experience nearly ruined their mother/daughter relationship.

 

[kaizasosei]

interesting idea...i do think that idealy kids should be respected as grownups and should be as responsible as grownups. but then again, kids should be kids free and wild as they may be.

j

 

[mrhnau]

I've considered homeschooling my kids in the future, or at least supplementing some of what they get in school, especially in the later years. We are still thinking about it. My wife is an educator and her only academic weak points just happen to be my strong points.

I think the quality you see is strongly dependent on the parents. I've seen some great home schooled kids, and some real stinkers. Same things with kids in public schools as well as private. I don't think I can universally say homeschooling is worse than public schools. I don't think you can say that behavioral problems are -only- dependant on the parents, since in public education you have the same diversity/concentration of problems.

I will say though, you need to go out of your way to keep kids social. I know of one local family that does that. They have six kids, homeschooled them all the way. They strongly encourage them to be active in sports (school sports, which some counties allow) and keep them in social activities, such as youth groups (they are pastors, and let them go to other churches youth groups) and other such activities. They are really great kids, and a few of them are pretty darn bright I think sharing the teaching load with similar parents could be useful, as well as letting them go to local schools for special classes as needed, provided it is allowed. One of the problems I've theorized is some things like a nicely equipped chemistry/physics lab might be difficult, or if your child wants to learn a foreign language you are not familiar with or instrument you don't play... problems like that exist where interaction with other parents or teachers (either public school teachers or other home-schoolers) might be useful.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Well personally I opted not to home school my kid's so that their would be a clear distinction in the parent/teacher relationship. I also wanted them to interact with lot's of other kid's their age from all different kinds of backgrounds. So far this has worked out well. I do know at least one person who just started home schooling their 8th grader and she is really having a rough go of it. (this is a tough call for the parent) They decided to Home School when she was facing some tough challenges in the seventh grade. The challenges were social in nature by the way.

Now onto entitlement. Well I am friend's with a Vice President at a small Liberal Arts College. He has been around the block and worked in many different University settings. His major complaint in dealing with college students in general is that they all now have this sense of entitlement! He feels that most have never been told that they cannot do something or that they have been insulated to much from failure by their parents. This particularly shows up when they eventually meet failure face to face at this particular College.

 

[mrhnau]

Now onto entitlement. Well I am friend's with a Vice President at a small Liberal Arts College. He has been around the block and worked in many different University settings. His major complaint in dealing with college students in general is that they all now have this sense of entitlement! He feels that most have never been told that they cannot do something or that they have been insulated to much from failure by their parents. This particularly shows up when they eventually meet failure face to face at this particular College.

This is definately not a problem unique to home-schooling. To think so is a bit naive, at least IMHO. I think parents have a hard time accepting that little Joey just failed his math test, or that he is not the best and brightest in his class. The sense of entitlement essentially comes down primarily to the parents, and in some instances perhaps, to the educator.

 

[CoryKS]

First off, you're full of it. Sorry, you asked for it.

I see the kids with good skills in some areas, but a terrible deficiency in breadth of knowledge.

I see terrible social skills, especially in terms of ability or willingness to negotiate with others, and of how to behave in a group environment.

I see, perhaps worst of all, a sense of entitlement, that the child is more important than anything or anyone around them. That no rules apply.

Can somebody give me a counterargument here? I'd love to hear the other hand.

I don't think this has anything to do with homeschooling vs. public schooling. I see public school kids all the time who fit this description. What you're describing in all three cases is a lack of real-world experience. No schooling can give them that. They'll come around when they get out of school, get a job, and realize that it's not all about them. Or not, in which case they'll just have to learn to enjoy the sensation of banging their heads against the wall.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

This is definately not a problem unique to home-schooling. To think so is a bit naive, at least IMHO. I think parents have a hard time accepting that little Joey just failed his math test, or that he is not the best and brightest in his class. The sense of entitlement essentially comes down primarily to the parents, and in some instances perhaps, to the educator.

Absolutely this is not unique to home schooling but according to my friend it has become an epidemic in dealing with College level students. I think to many parents over protect their children (and rightly so) and yet failure often brings with it a certain drive for success. I think it is important to let your children fail at something every now and then so that you can teach them how to be successful at it and or recover from it.

I can see alot of benefits to home schooling. Such as quite a bit more parental control. Yet when I weighed all the pluses of home schooling it clearly lost out due to the lack of socialization with other children and different teacher's.

 

[tradrockrat]

If I ever have kids I would seriously consider homeschooling them for all of the reasons people choose homeschooling.

But, there is homeschooling and there is homeschooling. As an educator myself, I have seen both sides of homeschooling from students who have been "introduced" to the school where I taught / teach. Overwhelmingly, these students do well in their courses and have a strong foundation in their core classes. However, some do suffer from the deficits described in the first post. One previously home schooled student was so poor with his social skills that a doctor had diagnosed him with Aspergers (which is why his parents tried to enroll him in our school - we deal specifically with Autism/Aspergers) but it was clear - to us at least - that he was socially retarded and needed an ED class and social skills lessons, which we were able to pride him at another campus for that situation. The Doctor got an earful and the mother got a second opinion. That student did very well after two years of direct social skills instruction.

I have talked to several home schooling parents and found that the children who do best come from a homeschooling "co-op" environment which is actually more like a tiny 10-15 child school than a strictly one student situation. These "co-ops" involve several families that take turns teaching specific subjects and tend to have a HUGE amount of experiential learning. These families vacation together to teach geography and history lessons, etc, etc. They also focus on extra circular activities to ensure the students grow social skills at an appropriate pace and have friends outside of the small group.

It's not homeschooling that is the problem - its the homeschooling environment that determines how successful the student can be