Soldier Skips Deployment

[Tez3]

Been there, done that, heard the excuses before.

If we had "to wait for the facts" before discussing things here there wouldn't be much to talk about. As we are not in this soldiers chain of command, or going to be participants in a court martial I think we are free to discuss our "hunches" and "educated guesses" (based on prior experience) as we please.

I love it too when people bite and say 'I'm entitled to my opinion', I wonder what they'd say if they were ever done for libel lol!
People are so quick to condemn, I wonder what it's like always thinking the worse of people?
Frankly, 'discussing' things without waiting for the facts when talking about someone is no more than gossiping.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ore-time-gossiping-than-women-poll-finds.html

 

[shesulsa]

No one seems to be thinking about possible circumstances that I pointed out. Perhaps her mom was her plan and the plan went bad - the article says the mom is caring for others in the family.

I wonder if the plan was laid and backup plan was other family until other family got sick? Was the mom caring for other sick family when she was put on the plan?

Oh, whatever. It's not that I think she should have had a better plan and I'm not dismissing the possibility she did this to purposely get out of deployment or even the Army, but I am just not into potentially shooting my own foot.

But I'm tired of the I'm right, you're wrong stuff.

Begging off the study again for a while.

 

[MJS]

Everyone underestimates the possiblities of totally crossed wires when it comes to organisations such as the armed forces, everyone imagines with all that discipline things must run smoothly which always makes me laugh as the expression 'left hand not knowing what the right is doing' was made for the military and it's organistation.
But then again I love that so many people can read so much into a newspaper report without knowing the facts lol!

I love it too when people bite and say 'I'm entitled to my opinion', I wonder what they'd say if they were ever done for libel lol!
People are so quick to condemn, I wonder what it's like always thinking the worse of people?
Frankly, 'discussing' things without waiting for the facts when talking about someone is no more than gossiping.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ore-time-gossiping-than-women-poll-finds.html

I havent seen a story yet, thats been posted here, thats been a complete article, with all of the facts. That being said, what we have currently, at least until someone posts a different article or more info. comes out, is the best that we can go on, and we have to form an opinion on what we see at the time.

There could be a thousand reasons that we dont know, but until they come out....

So, that being said, I'm really not seeing that the issue here is?

 

[MJS]

No one seems to be thinking about possible circumstances that I pointed out. Perhaps her mom was her plan and the plan went bad - the article says the mom is caring for others in the family.

I wonder if the plan was laid and backup plan was other family until other family got sick? Was the mom caring for other sick family when she was put on the plan?

Oh, whatever. It's not that I think she should have had a better plan and I'm not dismissing the possibility she did this to purposely get out of deployment or even the Army, but I am just not into potentially shooting my own foot.

But I'm tired of the I'm right, you're wrong stuff.

Begging off the study again for a while.

IMO, I dont think this is a topic that warrants you leaving, but if you want a break, you're entitled.

As for what you've said....I've said it myself. I've wondered about the plan in place currently, the backup plan, if any, if any other family members are stepping up to help. I've asked it all, already.

According to the link, the Army said they would not deploy someone like her....if she adivised them. When did she advise them? Seems to me, just going on what was said, that she flat out refused.

 

[MJS]

I think the bigger question is this: Are military families just not supposed to reproduce? And if we're going to prohibit women from getting pregnant in the service, then the military needs to pay for their ongoing birth control via implant.

I don't like the flavor of a soldier getting pregnant during wartime ... and the smell of this case isn't appealing ... but I'm just not going to judge anyone here ... yet.

This goes back to what I said earlier though....

If she, or anyone else is not in a position to have a kid, then dont have one. Now, I know....people will accuse me of dictating when they can have kids. Not what I'm saying, as I've pointed out, that you may have a pregnant wife, a good job, then BOOM, you get laid off, no job, baby on the way, loss of income, etc.

If a military family wants kids, fine, have them...but make damn sure that you have plan A....and b, c, d, e and f in place. Back in the day, when they had the draft, and people dodged it, what were the reasons behind that? People made excuse after excuse after excuse, so....here we have the same thing. All goes back to what I said about firefighting. If you cant or do not think that you can deal with the requirements of the job, dont do it....plain and simple.

And as for the military paying for BC....why can't the people having sex pay for it? I mean, come on now...since when did condoms spike up to $50 a pack??? And please, dont tell me that they're not 100% safe. I think we already went down that road with Pings posts. I still stand by what I said to her....you're not going to tell me that everyone in the world, who uses 1 form of BC only, is either lucky or sterile...because I'll call BS on that all day, every day.

 

[MBuzzy]

Just for the record, most bases will supply you with free condoms if you go to the right office....

 

[MJS]

Just for the record, most bases will supply you with free condoms if you go to the right office....

Well, there ya have it. Of course, and perhaps I missed it, but we could all be assuming that this girl used protection and it failed. What if she used nothing? Certain people keep harping on the 'things aren't 100%' line and we dont even know what her situation was.

 

[Tez3]

How many soldiers in the American army? And you are arguing about ONE of them missing her plane, discussing her family planning and generally second guessing everthing about her....sorry that's just laughable.

here's one for you, she may have been raped and chose to keep the child.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8005198.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ng-risk-raped-assaulted--male-colleagues.html

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/CD9BC82F-13FB-4429-A096-918437F9606D/


Now there's a problem.

 

[Carol]

Just for the record, most bases will supply you with free condoms if you go to the right office....

Its usually more than just condoms, eh? Can't military members and spouses get various family planning options for free at a military treatment facility or with a local doctor that accepts TRICARE coverage?

 

[MJS]

How many soldiers in the American army? And you are arguing about ONE of them missing her plane, discussing her family planning and generally second guessing everthing about her....sorry that's just laughable.

here's one for you, she may have been raped and chose to keep the child.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8005198.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ng-risk-raped-assaulted--male-colleagues.html

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/CD9BC82F-13FB-4429-A096-918437F9606D/


Now there's a problem.

No, whats laughable is how people are looking to make excuses for the girl, rather than talk about what she did...which was what I intended. And its not about her missing her plane...its about her refusing to deploy.

Rape? So now another thing comes into the mix. And people talk about ME speculating...LOL! Raped, accident, not an accident, whatever...fact of the matter is, is that she supposedly, that being the key word here, had a plan in place. It failed! Did she have a backup plan? Did any other family members step up and offer to help? Did she follow procedure that the military has in place, for service men and women with kids? Was this whole thing cooked up so she wouldn't have to deploy?

We dont know the whole story, so despite you not wanting to talk about half a story, others do, and until more surfaces, we only have that to go on. I mean really, how many things get talked about in the study, that are only half stories?

 

[MBuzzy]

Its usually more than just condoms, eh? Can't military members and spouses get various family planning options for free at a military treatment facility or with a local doctor that accepts TRICARE coverage?

Most certainly. Women can go and get birth control for 100% free for no other reason than family planning at any time from TriCare. We don't pay for prescription either and they are filled on base.

In addition to that, every base has some version of the "Family Advocacy" or "Airmen and Family Readiness Center" (don't know what the other services call it) and any soldier or dependent can go in there at any time and get advice on family planning.

Did I mention that we have daycares on our bases? Rated pretty high and the rates are proportionate to your pay. Oh yeah, and free babysitting a few times a month so that parents can get a break. Plus countless activities for families and kids.

I'll say it again....if military members chose not to have kids just because "They might be deployed" or some other nonsense....none of us would have kids. The truth of the matter is, most of us choose the best times in our careers, have kids and hope for the best. Some airmen and young soldiers end up in trouble unexpectedly and for the most part, we take care of them too.

This was a failure in communication. Either between the soldier and her mother, the soldier and her leadership, or her leadership and the deployment process. Plain and simple.

 

[MJS]

Most certainly. Women can go and get birth control for 100% free for no other reason than family planning at any time from TriCare. We don't pay for prescription either and they are filled on base.

In addition to that, every base has some version of the "Family Advocacy" or "Airmen and Family Readiness Center" (don't know what the other services call it) and any soldier or dependent can go in there at any time and get advice on family planning.

Did I mention that we have daycares on our bases? Rated pretty high and the rates are proportionate to your pay. Oh yeah, and free babysitting a few times a month so that parents can get a break. Plus countless activities for families and kids.

I'll say it again....if military members chose not to have kids just because "They might be deployed" or some other nonsense....none of us would have kids. The truth of the matter is, most of us choose the best times in our careers, have kids and hope for the best. Some airmen and young soldiers end up in trouble unexpectedly and for the most part, we take care of them too.

This was a failure in communication. Either between the soldier and her mother, the soldier and her leadership, or her leadership and the deployment process. Plain and simple.

Thanks for this info. So, all this being said, the question is....did she take advantage of the programs offered? I mean, if you have all this available to you, and you fail to use it, whos fault is that? If all this was available to her, then IMO, she has no excuse for not deploying. Here's her plan b right here.

 

[MBuzzy]

How many soldiers in the American army? And you are arguing about ONE of them missing her plane, discussing her family planning and generally second guessing everthing about her....sorry that's just laughable.

About 350,000 or so. Yep....I'm sure that it is making news on purpose. The general populus never hears about the thousands that are shortfalled and for some other reason not deployed when tasked. We do it all the time (my section runs the deployments for our unit). We probably work 5-10 substitutions every time that a large tasking comes down. The process isn't hard to shortfall and get a sub. The Army isn't too much different in that regard......but that person has to have a good reason. Just not showing up is bad juju.

No, whats laughable is how people are looking to make excuses for the girl, rather than talk about what she did...which was what I intended. And its not about her missing her plane...its about her refusing to deploy.

That's what this is really about....she just didn't show. She simply refused. Now, maybe she felt that she didn't have any other options, but she certainly handled it badly. This is the kind of thing that could have been worked without lawyers and making a national case out of it. Although, I'm sure that the media involvement was her lawyer's FIRST STEP. If I was her lawyer, hell, I'd have the media involved immediately! That is perfect, gain public support by saying that the evil Army was going to deploy this poor lonely single mother and leave her child on the street!

 

[MBuzzy]

Thanks for this info. So, all this being said, the question is....did she take advantage of the programs offered? I mean, if you have all this available to you, and you fail to use it, whos fault is that? If all this was available to her, then IMO, she has no excuse for not deploying. Here's her plan b right here.

And that's a big part of it. A lot of this was her own fault....just beacuse there were other options that she didn't investigate. now, as an officer I'm forced into thinking "This is a young soldier and SOMEONE above her should have been helping and taking care of her." That is why the chain of command exists.

 

[Tez3]

No, whats laughable is how people are looking to make excuses for the girl, rather than talk about what she did...which was what I intended. And its not about her missing her plane...its about her refusing to deploy.

Rape? So now another thing comes into the mix. And people talk about ME speculating...LOL! Raped, accident, not an accident, whatever...fact of the matter is, is that she supposedly, that being the key word here, had a plan in place. It failed! Did she have a backup plan? Did any other family members step up and offer to help? Did she follow procedure that the military has in place, for service men and women with kids? Was this whole thing cooked up so she wouldn't have to deploy?

We dont know the whole story, so despite you not wanting to talk about half a story, others do, and until more surfaces, we only have that to go on. I mean really, how many things get talked about in the study, that are only half stories?[/quote]

Far too many, as I said it's gossip not a discussion. sometimes it's a lynch mob.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Did I mention that we have daycares on our bases? Rated pretty high and the rates are proportionate to your pay. Oh yeah, and free babysitting a few times a month so that parents can get a break. Plus countless activities for families and kids.

I must say, I'm quite impressed. I also agree with your assessment that this case sounds like a failure to communicate.

 

[MJS]

No, whats laughable is how people are looking to make excuses for the girl, rather than talk about what she did...which was what I intended. And its not about her missing her plane...its about her refusing to deploy.

Rape? So now another thing comes into the mix. And people talk about ME speculating...LOL! Raped, accident, not an accident, whatever...fact of the matter is, is that she supposedly, that being the key word here, had a plan in place. It failed! Did she have a backup plan? Did any other family members step up and offer to help? Did she follow procedure that the military has in place, for service men and women with kids? Was this whole thing cooked up so she wouldn't have to deploy?

We dont know the whole story, so despite you not wanting to talk about half a story, others do, and until more surfaces, we only have that to go on. I mean really, how many things get talked about in the study, that are only half stories?[/quote]

Far too many, as I said it's gossip not a discussion. sometimes it's a lynch mob.

Umm...you, not me, were the one who posted the links about rape. I assume you did so, to prove that it does happen, and the possibility that it may have happened to this girl. So...I'm not speculating anything.

So it also seems that you're against not talking about anything unless its a full story. So, if thats the case, why are you involved in this thread? And for someone who is so against talking about half stories, a quick look at your posting history will show that you spend alot of time in the study and the political areas. So, are you honestly going to tell me that ALL of those stories are complete? Highly unlikely. Of course, I have to wonder if there is some other hidden reason as to why you're so against the negativity towards what this girl did. See, this is one of the problems, much like that troll in the LEO section....people only want to focus on the supposed 'bad things' that are happening, in this case to the solider and in the LEO section, the 'victims' of the cops, but what they dont want to discuss, is the other side of the story.

Oh the poor, poor soldier girl. How could the service do such a horrible thing to her. Oh poor her, her poor child, her poor family. This is what certain people want to focus on here. What they don't want to focus on, is the high possibility that there are other services, as pointed out by MBuzzy, that she failed to take advantage of.

 

[Carol]

I must say, I'm quite impressed. I also agree with your assessment that this case sounds like a failure to communicate.

[yt]1u-I0D9ReqI[/yt]



I saw a comment, I can't recall if it was from one of the articles here, or something that I read on the web. A spokesperson for the base said that if her childcare plans had gone totally wrong at the last minute (or seemingly even if her choice was unreliable), all she would have needed to do was show up for her deployment with her baby in her arms, and there would have been no way that she would have been put on the plane over.

That does imply though, that the key was showing up for duty.

 

[MJS]

[yt]1u-I0D9ReqI[/yt]



I saw a comment, I can't recall if it was from one of the articles here, or something that I read on the web. A spokesperson for the base said that if her childcare plans had gone totally wrong, all she would have needed to do was show up for her deployment with her baby in her arms, and there would have been no way that she would have been put on the plane over.

That does imply though, that the key was showing up for duty.

Good point. Of course, this brings up another question. If what was said in the link was true...that she wouldn't have been deployed, does that mean not deployed at that time or ever? I mean, it was suggested earlier that this whole thing could've been cooked up, in an effort between her and mom, to not put herself in danger. So, does any female with a child, never have to go overseas? What about the fathers who leave pregnant wives and girlfriends, who never see their child born, who get deployed? Its really no different. If you're going to do for one, you better do for all.

 

[Tez3]

Umm...you, not me, were the one who posted the links about rape. I assume you did so, to prove that it does happen, and the possibility that it may have happened to this girl. So...I'm not speculating anything.

So it also seems that you're against not talking about anything unless its a full story. So, if thats the case, why are you involved in this thread? And for someone who is so against talking about half stories, a quick look at your posting history will show that you spend alot of time in the study and the political areas. So, are you honestly going to tell me that ALL of those stories are complete? Highly unlikely. Of course, I have to wonder if there is some other hidden reason as to why you're so against the negativity towards what this girl did. See, this is one of the problems, much like that troll in the LEO section....people only want to focus on the supposed 'bad things' that are happening, in this case to the solider and in the LEO section, the 'victims' of the cops, but what they dont want to discuss, is the other side of the story.

Oh the poor, poor soldier girl. How could the service do such a horrible thing to her. Oh poor her, her poor child, her poor family. This is what certain people want to focus on here. What they don't want to focus on, is the high possibility that there are other services, as pointed out by MBuzzy, that she failed to take advantage of.

Bollocks and over dramatic
I have no hidden reason, it just amuses me to see you all falling over yourself to condemn someone. No accepting that it's just a silly idiot who messed up..... and hands up all those who haven't messed up? You want to lynch someone who made a mistake? How does it affect you, has she done you a wrong, do her actions affect you? doubt it so why all the pontificating? It's self righteous clap trap.

She's made a mistake for what ever reason, probably quite a big mistake and it will be sorted by the authorities. Simple. Sometimes the simplest reason is the truth, she was stupid. The armies of the world don't tend to employ the brightest sparks. You'd be surprised how many stupid actions there are that when you explain to the person they go 'dur, didn't think of that.' Never underestimate stupidity it doesn't make a person bad though, just thick.

Yes, I post all over MT but I tend not to condemn people who've been featured in the press and it's not the first time I've said wait for the whole story. Some threads such as the one about Purple Heart medal for the shooting victims I have asked questions not opinions as I like to learn about things and I can rely on an erudite and knowledgable answer.

I don't understand why this girls actions, for what ever reason, cause so many peoples blood pressure to rise and as a consequence some hurtful posts are made.

MBuzzy, as ex RAF officer I know the actions of soldiers and the army are often quite different from one expects from the air force lol! I'll leave it at that before it starts an interservice war ( but we know who's best rofl)