Soldier Skips Deployment

[jks9199]

The short notice/partial unit deployments are pretty much an Air Force thing.

I agree with grydth, when I deployed ALL kinds of excuses started to pop up. Color me cynical, but this story leaves me...well..cynical.

I've got my suspicions, as well. Especially with a very sympathetic article which didn't seem to have any input from the command structure, not even a "no comment" comment.

But she's serving. Absent more information, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume that she had everything in place, intended to deploy, but the plans fell through. However -- everything I know about today's military suggests to me that she then failed to follow the proper protocol about dealing with it. Like I said -- I have a suspicion that her explanation was delivered when someone tried to find out why she wasn't at the airport.

 

[Archangel M]

Exactly. Going AWOL is FAR from the propper protocol for dealing with this issue.

 

[MJS]

Look my response there was facetious, obviously lost in translation

Gee, thats funny, I almost took that as a personal shot at me, my wife, sister and brother in law, but I just let that one slide.

I've got no clue what your whole point on this thread was, so I tried to respond as I saw fit initally. You seemed to suggest that if she enlisted and then had a kid alone it was irresponsible of her. I disagree. My biggest point is that I disagree seeing as how there is no way to 100% prevent pregnancy besides not having sex. If you look at the statistics there are many choices for which there is over a 99% chance that if you use BC 100% perfectly you won't get pregnant, but there is still always that small fraction that you will get pregnant and she could have been in that small fraction. If there is only a 1/2 of 1% chance of pregnancy it still means for every million who use it, 5000 will get pregnant. Even if you use no protection it doesn't mean you will definitely get pregnant. Lord knows pregnancy can be hit or miss, and depends a lot on the participants, if it wasn't, we wouldn't need in vitro or all those other methods to help people who want kids to have them, heck it wouldn't have taken my folks 5 years of trying to have me. Obviously for you, BC works great, I'm real happy for you. From what we know, for her it didn't, or for all we know she was 1 step away from the altar when the guy bailed, she never planned to be a single mom, **** just happened.

Point of the thread was to talk about the incident. Was she fairly treated by the service? Did she have a legal leg to stand on by doing what she did? Come on now, there're 2 examples. Its not that hard to figure out. If you're not sure of what I'm saying, ask. Better to get clarification than turn the thread into a piss fest, dont ya think?

My point is this, which I feel was covered in my OP, but for your sake, I'll state it again. Let me use this as an example. When I got married, I was just starting a new job with the Dept. Of Corrections. I had to write a letter to the warden of the facility, explaining the situation to her, and asking if she would grant me the time, fully knowing that I was new, still on probation, and didn't have alot of time built up. I asked for at least the wedding, and would be more than willing to put the honeymoon off. Much to my surprise, she sent a very nice letter back to me, telling me that she was granting me the time for both. I was greatful. Moral of the story....dont expect to always get your wish. She could have said no, and then what?

How does this apply to this story? Was her plan failsafe? Obviously not. Did she have a backup plan? Dont know, but it doesnt look like it. So, knowing this, knowing that she could deploy at any time, why have a kid? Planned, unplanned, I'm not saying not to have sex, but while you throw out stat after stat, I'm saying that there are millions of people out there, who have sex every day, that use 1 method of BC and are not pregnant. For as long as I've known my wife, she hasnt become pregnant, and neither has anyone else that I know. You're saying nothing is 100%. I'm saying your stats are flawed because of the real life examples. You shoot back that 1 or both people are sterile. I'm saying that is BS, because its physically impossible for everyone in the world to be.

We obviously don't have all the details in this case as jks9199 and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if someone did say "so put your kid in foster care you are deploying" as a way of trying to force her to find a solution in the time left. The military as a whole does try to help families, especially in recent years, but my experience working with members of the various branches has shown me that, at the officer lower levels especially, there are at times....miscommunications of policy....in an effort to make everyone and everything conform. She could also completely be at fault in this, lying or never having told her command of the problem, wouldn't be the first time the media twisted a story to try and make someone a sympathetic victim to suit their needs.

Yup, you're right and just like every other article that gets posted in this area, we dont know the full story all the time either, but that doesnt mean we can talk about what we do know.

But I still go back to this comment of yours


and take umbrage at what I feel is the suggestion that she was irresponsible just cause she had a kid as a single woman knowing that she might be deployed as part of her job.

I addressed this above. As I've said, if youre not in the position to have a kid, then dont bring one into the world. Due to her circumstances, she, IMO,is not in the best shape to be caring and having one.

 

[MJS]

Or they cooked up a way to keep daughter dear from getting deployed.

..I know what I would bet on.

Thank you! And this goes right back to what I said earlier and people who have firefighter dreams and LEO dreams.....but never, ever wanna go into a burning building or pull a car over cuz they may get shot. See, its all fun and games, you get education, money, etc. But then reality sets in, and you do have to enter a real fire to save a life, you do get some guy who isn't going back to jail, or you face the risk of deployment....and suddenly you change your mind....but realize that its waayyy too late for that.

To the girl in this case: Sorry, Dorothy, but youre not in Kansas anymore.

 

[MJS]

Sure seems like a reasonable possibility. I know the notice for deployments varies by unit, but my field guys that are in have given us tons of notice when they've been activated. One of our guys gave us 4 months notice, another was more like 8 months notice. That's a lot of time to put your affairs in order, and seek out help if you need it.

Case by case basis. I used to work with a guy, who would come in all the time, telling our boss that he was going to need the weekend off, or a month or more off. Sometimes it was a day or two notice. This was not always the case, as there were also times when he would provide that week or month notice.

In this case though, and I'll say it again...it does not seem that she had any backup plans. She relied on one person, but of course, it could have all been cooked up.

 

[shesulsa]

Kevin Larson, a spokesman for Hunter Army Airfield, said he didn't know what Hutchinson was told by her commanders, but he said the Army would not deploy a single parent who had nobody to care for his or her child.

"I don't know what transpired and the investigation will get to the bottom of it," Larson said. "If she would have come to the deployment terminal with her child, there's no question she would not have been deployed."

With all due respect to all in uniform, it is hardly a distant reach to assuming the left hand didn't know the right hand was saluting.

There's all kinds of possibilities here. I wonder if the ill family members her mother are taking care of (with the exception of the special needs sister) are permanently disabled? Is it a long-term and unexpected situation? What is the "illness?" Diabetes? Were they in some sort of accident and need time to heal? How long was she given notice to deploy? Sounds like most of the woman's family lives with or are being taken care of by her mom. Who else is available? This would be impossible in my situation if I were single because most of my family is *dead.*

I tire of pointing fingers at people when I don't have all the facts.

I think the bigger question is this: Are military families just not supposed to reproduce? And if we're going to prohibit women from getting pregnant in the service, then the military needs to pay for their ongoing birth control via implant.

I don't like the flavor of a soldier getting pregnant during wartime ... and the smell of this case isn't appealing ... but I'm just not going to judge anyone here ... yet.

 

[celtic_crippler]

From what I've read/heard she failed to notify anyone of her situation.

If she had, she would have been excused from deployment.

Once again, it boils down to personal responsibility. She screwed up, didn't follow procedure, and now has to pay the piper.

 

[MBuzzy]

With all due respect to all in uniform, it is hardly a distant reach to assuming the left hand didn't know the right hand was saluting.

There's all kinds of possibilities here. I wonder if the ill family members her mother are taking care of (with the exception of the special needs sister) are permanently disabled? Is it a long-term and unexpected situation? What is the "illness?" Diabetes? Were they in some sort of accident and need time to heal? How long was she given notice to deploy? Sounds like most of the woman's family lives with or are being taken care of by her mom. Who else is available? This would be impossible in my situation if I were single because most of my family is *dead.*

I tire of pointing fingers at people when I don't have all the facts.

I think the bigger question is this: Are military families just not supposed to reproduce? And if we're going to prohibit women from getting pregnant in the service, then the military needs to pay for their ongoing birth control via implant.

I don't like the flavor of a soldier getting pregnant during wartime ... and the smell of this case isn't appealing ... but I'm just not going to judge anyone here ... yet.

Not a stretch at all. She may have even followed procedures, I mean, it isn't like her unit didn't know the situation. Although, if they didn't, THEN it was her fault.

The military is generally pretty good at dealing with stuff like this, especially with the new emphasis on families.

Bottom line is that if a soldier were to not get pregnant during war time, then no one in the military could have kids for the last 9 years and probably for the next 20.

 

[MBuzzy]

From what I've read/heard she failed to notify anyone of her situation.

If she had, she would have been excused from deployment.

Once again, it boils down to personal responsibility. She screwed up, didn't follow procedure, and now has to pay the piper.

I'm torn on this issue. It hits me, because of the situation my wife is in and I understand that this women needed to take care of her family.

I just really feel that something else is going on here. We wouldn't deploy someone in this situation and where the hell was her first sergeant or commander?? didn't they know about the situation? They should be working this for her - not saying "Shut up and color."

Our job as military leaders is to take care of our troops and there are times when we say shut up and get on the plane and time when we need to make realistic decisions regarding the health and welbeing of our troops.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I'm torn on this issue. It hits me, because of the situation my wife is in and I understand that this women needed to take care of her family.

I just really feel that something else is going on here. We wouldn't deploy someone in this situation and where the hell was her first sergeant or commander?? didn't they know about the situation? They should be working this for her - not saying "Shut up and color."

Our job as military leaders is to take care of our troops and there are times when we say shut up and get on the plane and time when we need to make realistic decisions regarding the health and welbeing of our troops.

I was just an elisted man; a grunt, but I don't recall there being a Mind Reading 101 class when I went to NCO school so I doubt there's one for officers.

Again, it's about personal responsibility. It's her duty to report anything that could impede her ability to perfrom her job.

Again, from the latest I've heard she failed to notify anyone of the situation. If she had, it wouldn't be an issue and we'd never have heard about it because it wouldn't be in the news.

I'm not saying the military doesn't make mistakes, like I said... I served so I know better lol... but they're not heartless and do make allowences for things like this.

Unless something new breaks, I think she's put herself in this position.

 

[MBuzzy]

I was just an elisted man; a grunt, but I don't recall there being a Mind Reading 101 class when I went to NCO school so I doubt there's one for officers.

Again, it's about personal responsibility. It's her duty to report anything that could impede her ability to perfrom her job.

Again, from the latest I've heard she failed to notify anyone of the situation. If she had, it wouldn't be an issue and we'd never have heard about it because it wouldn't be in the news.

I'm not saying the military doesn't make mistakes, like I said... I served so I know better lol... but they're not heartless and do make allowences for things like this.

Unless something new breaks, I think she's put herself in this position.

In that case, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with your leaders. I know that the Army does things differently, but believe it or not, it is the job of the unit leadership to know their troops and take care of them. I can tell you the names of each of my troops' kids and I know what each of their family care plans say. I do that for my flight and the first sergeant knows that for the entire squadron. There are also personnelists whose job is to know the situations of the people in the unit.

Plus, a 21 year old specialist can't do it herself. She would need the involvement of your chain of command, which in this case, failed her.

now I'm not saying that she did everything right or that the responsibility isn't hers - because it most certainly is. She should keep her unit apprised of her personal situations, the same with me...if my troops don't tell me and don't talk to me, I can't help them.

So, if it comes out that she never told anyone anything and they were legitimately clueless, then I would be ready to put it all on her shoulders, but until then, I would place at least part of the blame on her leaders. I know that a lot of enlisted troops, particularly in the army and marines don't have a whole lot of faith in their leaders and don't have very good relationships with them, but that is more the fault of the leaders who fail to properly monitor their troops' well being. Again, I'll wait for more info here.

 

[Archangel M]

It's the DUTY of a soldier to be deployable. She knew WAY in advance that she needed a care plan if she was going to have a child and stay in the Army. She should have had a care plan from the day she knew she was pregnant. Waiting till the last moment to decide "gee..my mom can't watch my kid" and not showing up at the airfield is a NO GO.

Shes in the ARMY for crissakes. It's time for a discharge.

 

[MBuzzy]

It's the DUTY of a soldier to be deployable. She knew WAY in advance that she needed a care plan if she was going to have a child and stay in the Army. She should have had a care plan from the day she knew she was pregnant. Waiting till the last moment to decide "gee..my mom can't watch my kid" and not showing up at the airfield is a NO GO.

Shes in the ARMY for crissakes. It's time for a discharge.

And it is very possible that a discharge is exactly what she wanted....Around deployment time, a lot of profiles and reasons to not deploy start popping up.

 

[Archangel M]

My thought exactly.

You cannot allow people to find ways to get out of deployments. This is the military. Punishment for being AWOL have been around for EONS, and with good reason.

I could never understand the "YOU WANT ME TO GO WHERE??" crap when deployments came down. What exactly did they thing the service was about?

 

[MBuzzy]

The other thing that is coloring my opinion is my extensive work with deployments. There are also a lot of GOOD reasons that people get out of deployments - and it is the responsibility of the leader to take all of that into account. For example, if I had a troop whose wife was going to deliver a baby during the deployment and it was within my power to substitute them with someone else or to delay their reporting, I would do it. If someone had a family member who was terminally ill and would die during the deployment, I would do the same (particularly because if there is a red cross notification, they are going home anyway).

SOMETIMES...it is just a lot more complex than "You're in the Army you're going." Has anyone asked how many deployments she has been on already? I would certainly take that into account when deciding. As a 21 year old specialist, she could have been on 1 or two...even as cook.

Now, with all of that said, I have also told a hell of a lot of troops to shut and get on the plane. A lot are just whiners and want to get out of deployments when they knew full well that deploying was part of their mission when they signed up.

 

[MJS]

Again, this is why I keep saying that it seems to me that she wanted to reap the benefits of the service, but when it came down to the 'dirty work' she had second thoughts. IMO, this is not what being in the service or any job where there're high risks, is all about. You want to do something, you damn well better know what you're getting yourself into BEFORE you join up.

 

[Archangel M]

I think "repeated deployments" come with the job description as well. Hell..possible DEATH comes with the job description.

 

[MJS]

I think "repeated deployments" come with the job description as well.

True. This is why I'm wondering if she had a backup plan. If it is true, that her mother is too 'stressed' with other things, and if this girl did get out of this deployment, whats going to happen the next time, and the next time and the time after that? I think using your child as an excuse will only go for so long.

Hell..possible DEATH comes with the job description.

Yet another example of why I think this may have been a pre-cooked scheme. "Oh, I'll join the Military, where I can reap all the benefits. But wait....holy ****...I never thought about the possibility of me dying. Never thought that I'd have to go to sandland and have snipers try to pick me and my platoon off as we invade their country."

 

[Tez3]

Everyone underestimates the possiblities of totally crossed wires when it comes to organisations such as the armed forces, everyone imagines with all that discipline things must run smoothly which always makes me laugh as the expression 'left hand not knowing what the right is doing' was made for the military and it's organistation.
But then again I love that so many people can read so much into a newspaper report without knowing the facts lol!

 

[Archangel M]

Been there, done that, heard the excuses before.

If we had "to wait for the facts" before discussing things here there wouldn't be much to talk about. As we are not in this soldiers chain of command, or going to be participants in a court martial I think we are free to discuss our "hunches" and "educated guesses" (based on prior experience) as we please.