So, What do you think?

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Shoot me an e-mail and let me know when you're coming Mr. Arbuckle.

I'll let it be known here. I'd rather not talk to you on a personal
note ever again, that's something I extend to friends, and those
who come posing as friends. You came posing as a friend, only
you've already exposed yourself as otherwise. Plus I want to
be sure you can free yourself up from the Lollipop Guild when I'm
there.

 

[rmcrobertson]

It might be interesting to use this thread to find out exactly why the politics of kenpo are so annoying, but I don't see much hope of that.

Still:
1) Is it inherent in martial arts?
2) Is it inherent in boys and men--you know, dick-waving.
3) Is it inherent in the modern world and the fact of money?
4) Is it a product of what Guy Debord called, "the society of the spectacle?"
5) Is it a product of a particular situation?
6) Is there something stuck in the way Mr. Parker set up American kenpo?

Of course, there's another approach. Can anybody detail real, serious consequences of the politics of kenpo? Something that ISN'T a matter of guys yelling at each other on a forum? I mean, there are countries where your unpopular opinions get you shot: there's real politics.

Maybe if I went to tournaments, I'd get into worrying over the judging. Certainly, the time's I've gone I have thought that the politics were evident in everything from all the damn sparring (too much of it), to the fishy way a lot of the forms get done and judged (politics done killed the knowledge), to the extremely iffy judging of some of the self defense stuff (best not to say). But I don't. Nor do I go to seminars, in part because I've got a full-time job, a long commute, and two days only to train at the studio and teach. So, the only time the pols heat me up is when I'm on a forum, and I read a basket of snotty little comments that immediately get denied by the twits who make them. (No, I don't have anybody in mind, and yes, I include myself.)

When I land back on earth, I don't give a hoot.

Just to be political, I will say that Gou's arguments are looking better and better to me. I'm certainly not gonna be dropping kenpo for Systema...ever...but looking back through the last few pages, I can easily see that I'd rather be on his side of the argument this time around. Among other things, he's actually reading what's written, rather than merely jumping to conclusions.

I'll spare us all the pieties about spirit, manners, and martial arts. But I do think that good manners are nice.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
I'll let it be known here. I'd rather not talk to you on a personal note ever again, that's something I extend to friends, and those who come posing as friends. You came posing as a friend, only you've already exposed yourself as otherwise. Plus I want to be sure you can free yourself up from the Lollipop Guild when I'm there.

Well, the guild takes up a lot of my time. You try wearing these d@mn shoes and doing that dance.

I'm not the one threatening people because they don't have the same opinions that I have and threatening violence upon them to force them to change their mind. I have no problem with someone doing what they want. I'm not making wild accusations. I am not posing as anything but myself. I have not changed since day one that you knew me. You just don't like what I have to say and you thought it was hilarious when I told others what I thought but don't like it when it's told to you.

As far as I am concerned, you've threatened my life and my ability to take care of my family. I'll be sure to take appropriate steps and respond as needed.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

When you two duel it out, please tape the fight for the rest of us.

Didn't Kirk mentioned somewhere that his school does not spar? It would be interesting to see how well that works out

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Well, the guild takes up a lot of my time. You try wearing these d@mn shoes and doing that dance.

I'm not the one threatening people because they don't have the same opinions that I have and threatening violence upon them to force them to change their mind. I have no problem with someone doing what they want. I'm not making wild accusations. I am not posing as anything but myself. I have not changed since day one that you knew me. You just don't like what I have to say and you thought it was hilarious when I told others what I thought but don't like it when it's told to you.

As far as I am concerned, you've threatened my life and my ability to take care of my family. I'll be sure to take appropriate steps and respond as needed.

Oh, it's like that. Well again, I mistook you for a man. My intent
was a physical brawl, in a controlled setting, there were no
threats. I don't physically attack people unwarranted, and I
certainly don't do it to someone's family that I don't even know.
But thanks for publicly implying that I do. I'm sure you'll say that
I said that I do in a PM.

You HAVE changed since I met you, pity you can't see that.
there's a big difference between a good natured ribbing,
and inquiring about my training, as a friend, only to use it to
attack me every time I turn around.

Let me say again, I mean no unwarranted harm against Gou,
or Gou's family!

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
When you two duel it out, please tape the fight for the rest of us.

Didn't Kirk mentioned somewhere that his school does not spar? It would be interesting to see how well that works out

If such a tape existed it wouldn't be a freebie!

Not only do we not spar, I'm at about a year and a half of
training, and Doug's done Boxing, BJJ, Systema, Kenpo, and I
think some others for supposedly years. I've also made it no
secret that I'm overweight (hence the Mr Arbuckle comment). I'm
bigger than he is, so it'd be interesting to see how well that
works out too, wouldn't it?

But he didn't take the comment the same way your or I did, he
took it as me threatening his life, and that of his wife's, sister's,
brother's, father's, granny, and so on.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
My intent was a physical brawl, in a controlled setting, there were no threats

Sounds like you intend on hurting me. That would put a problem in my being able to provide for my family. If you think I'm going to stand there and let you do it you're a fool.

A controlled setting? What? You threaten me with violence because I won't agree with your opinions and you want a controlled setting. Whatever you get when you come here is of your own making.

The words "brawl" and "controlled setting" do not go together.

Originally posted by Kirk
I don't physically attack people unwarranted

Liar. You just threatened me for not agreeing with your opinions with physical violence.

Originally posted by Kirk
I certainly don't do it to someone's family that I don't even know.

No, but you'll attempt to take the means that support them away from them.

Originally posted by Kirk
But thanks for publicly implying that I do. I'm sure you'll say that I said that I do in a PM.

Nope. I wouldn't say that. It's not true. I never PM'ed you about any of this. I'm not implying anything. I am saying you want to physically harm me and hurt my family by doing so. You said it. I will take appropriate steps when you get here.

Originally posted by Kirk
You HAVE changed since I met you, pity you can't see that.
there's a big difference between a good natured ribbing,
and inquiring about my training, as a friend, only to use it to
attack me every time I turn around.

That's the real beef here. You're mad because I pointed out that you worry about what kind of training you get. You're cheesed because you didn't think I should say that.

I don't think I have changed but I can see you becoming that type of bully that you claim you detest. I don't agree with you so you're going to beat me up. Well. I don't know what to tell you other than I know where you stand. A bully is only a bully until he's stood up to.

Whatever happens to you is of your own making.

Originally posted by Kirk
Let me say again, I mean no unwarranted harm against Gou,
or Gou's family!

Lies. You just said you wanted to brawl with me. You want to harm me. Ok. I'm not going anywhere. But you aren't going to get the controlled setting you desire.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

@ Kirk
lol He is just saying it, knowing that you are 1500 miles away from where he is. But Guo's personal argument with so many people, is running stale. It always boiled down to the same pattern. Kind of like a rerun of old show. I just came across similar Guo stuffs in the boxing sections. Deja vu. lol

BTW, I think Bill "SuperFoot" Wallace said that when you are big enough, you really do not need to know a lot of techniques. Don't sell yourself short there! lol

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
If such a tape existed it wouldn't be a freebie!

There won't be a tape.

Originally posted by Kirk
Not only do we not spar.

Oh. Now it's just sparring. I see.

Originally posted by Kirk
I'm at about a year and a half of
training, and Doug's done Boxing, BJJ, Systema, Kenpo, and I
think some others for supposedly years.

Supposedly. In all truth I have never even got off the couch. Honest injun...

Originally posted by Kirk
I've also made it no secret that I'm overweight (hence the Mr Arbuckle comment).

Don't cry to me about that. You called me a midget from Fantasy Island and from the Wizard Of Oz. The second of the two was kinda funny...

Originally posted by Kirk
I'm bigger than he is, so it'd be interesting to see how well that works out too, wouldn't it?

Yep.

Originally posted by Kirk
But he didn't take the comment the same way your or I did, he
took it as me threatening his life, and that of his wife's, sister's,
brother's, father's, granny, and so on.

Do you even read?

Originally posted by Doug
As far as I am concerned, you've threatened my life and my ability to take care of my family. I'll be sure to take appropriate steps and respond as needed.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Sounds like you intend on hurting me. That would put a problem in my being able to provide for my family. If you think I'm going to stand there and let you do it you're a fool.

So everytime you've asked people to "randori" or "discuss it on
the mat" were you threatening someone's livelihood?

Originally posted by GouRonin
A controlled setting? What? You threaten me with violence because I won't agree with your opinions and you want a controlled setting. Whatever you get when you come here is of your own making.

Threatened you with violence, huh? I asked for a shot at the
title.

Originally posted by GouRonin
Liar. You just threatened me for not agreeing with your opinions with physical violence.

No, YOU are liar. You lied each and everytime you spoke to me,
because you did it under the guise of friendship. It wasn't that
you didn't agree with me, God knows you rarely do. It's the way
you do it. Friends don't do that to each other. And I never
threatened you.

Originally posted by GouRonin
I will take appropriate steps when you get here.

Well then I rescind on my ..... "threat"

Originally posted by GouRonin
That's the real beef here. You're mad because I pointed out that you worry about what kind of training you get. You're cheesed because you didn't think I should say that.

Again, it's the WAY you said it. And again, I'm not mad, I'm fed
up, because this isn't the first time. The first thing was you telling
me that the deaths of Canadians during WWII were ALL the fault
of the United States. That their blood rests on the U.S's hands.
The second was when you said that every post of mine insinuates
a desire to get a black belt earlier than what I deserve, or want
to earn. This is the third. Your words weren't kind any of these
times, THATS what this is all about. As i've already said, you
ACTED like a friend, and really wasn't.

Originally posted by GouRonin
I don't think I have changed but I can see you becoming that type of bully that you claim you detest. I don't agree with you so you're going to beat me up. Well. I don't know what to tell you other than I know where you stand. A bully is only a bully until he's stood up to.

I never said I wanted to jump you unexpectedly. You're the bully.
You're just upset now that you're getting stood up to. It's not a
matter of agree or disagree, it's about respect, which you lack
any of. I'm not talking kenpo respect, I'm talking plain human
respect.

Originally posted by GouRonin
Lies. You just said you wanted to brawl with me. You want to harm me. Ok. I'm not going anywhere. But you aren't going to get the controlled setting you desire.

But you're so heavily trained! We all know you "don't care about
belts and rank" but you imply levels of superiority in like 5 ranks.
I should be a quick choke out, knock out, or submission for a ......
man like you.

 

[Cthulhu]

This thread is now locked.

Cthulhu
-MT Admin.-

 

[Kirk]

Ya never let people just hammer it out at all. There was no legal
trouble there, there was no name calling. There was 2 people
who have a problem, and they were hashing it out, civily. Why'd
ya lock it?

I would ask this in a PM but i never got a reply before.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
So everytime you've asked people to "randori" or "discuss it on
the mat" were you threatening someone's livelihood?

That is why i use those terms. Randori is specific.

Originally posted by Kirk
Threatened you with violence, huh? I asked for a shot at the
title.

To me that means you want to drop the gloves and go. Not "controlled sparring."

Originally posted by Kirk
No, YOU are liar. You lied each and everytime you spoke to me,
because you did it under the guise of friendship. It wasn't that
you didn't agree with me, God knows you rarely do. It's the way
you do it. Friends don't do that to each other. And I never
threatened you.

What the...? We're not dating. Jeezus. You sound like an ex-girlfriend Sally.

You threatened me. I accepted. You said you wanted something and I told you what to expect when you get here.

You show on up. I'll be here.

Now I'm done.
Lock it up Cthulu.

 

[Kirk]

I NEVER said controlled sparring. But I meant a fight. Just an
honorable one. You didn't accept .. you warned me you'd be
packin' heat or something.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The thread was locked due to the opinion that it was a matter best resolved off-board, and likely to turn into a more 'heated' one if left on its own.


Please also note that the support forum is not a debate / flame / clear the air forum.

We will be merging this thread with the other locked thread later tonite.

Thank you.