So Proud

[D.Cobb]

The easiest way to revive someone is to do a sternum rub….works like a charm.

There is no need fro all the “drama” that Dillman’s people do with 4 or 5 folks scrambling to get the KOed person up into a sitting position and crossing their legs. But that adds to the “shock & awe” factor and looks really kool for the uninitiated. Simple do the sternum rub (not the only way though) and gently lift the head slightly and massage the back of their neck at the base of the skull on both sides (takes away the nausea).. good for sea sickness as well.


Like I said before, you’re not “correcting” point(s) that were struck and there is no need to that many people there.

How often do you see medical people pick up a person who has just been knocked out like a boxer for example…..not ever right? What’s the difference? There isn’t one.

I must admit, I have only been "rubbed" by the one person at a time, not the 5 or 6 as you've mentioned, and it wasn't a rush mad panic kind of thing. I went down, he sat me up and slapped the spinal accessory nerve(gives you a kind of WAKE UP jolt) Then rubbed the neck like you said.

Tell me more about the sternum rub, it sounds interesting.

--Dave :asian:

 

[RRouuselot]

Otherwise, why not do like Robert said and just let them come around by natural means?
--Dave :asian:

Actually I never said that.....I think ppko was projecting when he wrote that in his post.
I am all for taking a proactive approach to getting them to wake up.....I am against having them brought up to a sitting position so quickly or before they are recovered.

 

[RRouuselot]

I must admit, I have only been "rubbed" by the one person at a time, not the 5 or 6 as you've mentioned, and it wasn't a rush mad panic kind of thing. I went down, he sat me up and slapped the spinal accessory nerve(gives you a kind of WAKE UP jolt) Then rubbed the neck like you said.

Tell me more about the sternum rub, it sounds interesting.

--Dave :asian:

All the demos by Dillman and video by DKI girl I have seen always has an entourage of about 4 to 5 people.


The slap you mentioned is OK but you can also smack their "glutes" (***) for the same effect. It keeps them from having to be put in an upright position.

 

[Xequat]

Dave, actually I had been shown the revivals a few times, but never actually got to do them on someone who needed until the KO.


There was no fanfare whatsoever for our KO's, so you are making a very unfounded assumption, Rob. We did not scramble for shock and awe and I think you realize it. I have to ask, though...did you actually neg my reputation for learning KO's from someone who isn't you or your teacher? Thanks for that, I got a good laugh out of the pettiness of it if it was you, but I'm not going to assume it without knowing, because whomever it was, they didn't sign it.

Read the subtitle of this site once in a while. "Friendly discussion about the martial arts." It seems that the only advice you can offer is "don't train with anyone but Oyata or me because they are frauds." I know that you guys are good, but you are not the only ones in the world who know and understand pressure points. I've actually given you positive rep before because I usually respect what you write, but there are plenty of other "I hate Dillman threads, so please go there to bash DKI. This is ppko's thread about his successful teaching and I'm proud of him. If you want to attack me because I am associated with someone you don't happen to like, then do it pm's or on another thread.

Question for everyone : has anyone been seriously hurt and not repaired by Dillman or any of his top students? If so, then maybe you're right and DKI is dangerous.

 

[RRouuselot]

1) There was no fanfare whatsoever for our KO's, so you are making a very unfounded assumption, Rob.



2) Read the subtitle of this site once in a while. "Friendly discussion about the martial arts." It seems that the only advice you can offer is "don't train with anyone but Oyata or me because they are frauds."



I've actually given you positive rep before because I usually respect what you write, but there are plenty of other "I hate Dillman threads, so please go there to bash DKI. This is ppko's thread about his successful teaching and I'm proud of him.

3) If you want to attack me because I am associated with someone you don't happen to like, then do it pm's or on another thread.

4) Question for everyone : has anyone been seriously hurt and not repaired by Dillman or any of his top students? If so, then maybe you're right and DKI is dangerous.

1)So if you bother to read my post you will see it was no “assumption” but based on what I have actually seen.

2)Again, go through my posts and you will see I give pretty specific examples based on TCM principles why I object to your posts and the alleged knowledge you claim to have…..and you will also notice I do not mention my teacher in any of this stuff…...in fact you will also notice I do not mention him in my profile and rarely if ever discuss him unless he is mentioned by someone else first. So show me where I have implied any such thing. Give me a specific example where I implied "if you don't study with my teacher you are studying with a fraud".....fact is YOU CAN'T find any place that I have said that or even implied anything like that.
I have tried to have friendly discussions with you guys but when specific questions are asked or specific topics are discussed you either give incorrect information or balk at an answer....then when given information why your comments are flawed get your panties in a bunch and cry "take it to PM".

3)Actually nobody is “attacking” you. There is no need to take it to PM’s…everytime you guys can't defend your position in posts or don't like what people post in regards to your posts/threads you always cry "take to PM" thereby avoiding an embarassing situation.... you make comments and people post responses to those comments…..if you don’t want to have it discussed don’t start a thread on it or post it in a thread.

4)Here is another question: How long did it take Ali to develop the disease he has? Did it happen right after he got hit or did it take years before the symptoms started?

 

[Flatlander]

deleted

 

[ppko]

Shouldn't you have taught him that bit first?
I mean any one can thump anyone else :whip: , it's NO big deal! Surely the "Healing" side of the arts is more important....
Otherwise, why not do like Robert said and just let them come around by natural means?

Just wondering....... :idunno:


--Dave :asian:

I did teach him that first

 

[ppko]

Here is another question: How long did it take Ali to develop the disease he has? Did it happen right after he got hit or did it take years before the symptoms started?

So by your assumption (beings that is obviously what it is from this post) anyone including yourself that has been KOd (now you do realize that by your own post you assume that teacher now know longer matters) could end up like Ali.

 

[Xequat]

1)So if you bother to read my post you will see it was no “assumption” but based on what I have actually seen.

2)Again, go through my posts and you will see I give pretty specific examples based on TCM principles why I object to your posts and the alleged knowledge you claim to have…..and you will also notice I do not mention my teacher in any of this stuff…...in fact you will also notice I do not mention him in my profile and rarely if ever discuss him unless he is mentioned by someone else first. So show me where I have implied any such thing. Give me a specific example where I implied "if you don't study with my teacher you are studying with a fraud".....fact is YOU CAN'T find any place that I have said that or even implied anything like that.
I have tried to have friendly discussions with you guys but when specific questions are asked or specific topics are discussed you either give incorrect information or balk at an answer....then when given information why your comments are flawed get your panties in a bunch and cry "take it to PM".

3)Actually nobody is “attacking” you. There is no need to take it to PM’s…everytime you guys can't defend your position in posts or don't like what people post in regards to your posts/threads you always cry "take to PM" thereby avoiding an embarassing situation.... you make comments and people post responses to those comments…..if you don’t want to have it discussed don’t start a thread on it or post it in a thread.

4)Here is another question: How long did it take Ali to develop the disease he has? Did it happen right after he got hit or did it take years before the symptoms started?

1) OK, fair enough. You've seen it in other places, but there was no showcasing in our class and we know it's not necessary to have a bunch of people rush over because there were only a few of us in class and no spectators.

2) Yes, I agree that many of your posts involving TCM have been quite helpful. But this is the only one of my posts that you have openly disagreed with and I'm willing to bet that it's simply because you don't agree with my teacher. Who in the world are "you guys?" You have never once tried to have a friendly conversation with me, but I'm up for it if you are. PPKO is a very good instructor, but we are completely different people. So he starts a thread on a martial arts site to talk about a martial arts success and you attack. Tell me, where was your try to have friendly discussions with me?

3) See that word "or?" That's an important part of my post. That means you can bash whomever you want on one of the other threads about Kyusho-jitsu or Dillman or maybe you've hijacked other threads, too...I don't know. But you aren't even trying to stay on topic here; you apparently just want to vent about someone who disagrees with you. And actually someone did "attack" me with a reputation ding. I mean, it's kind of like being attacked by a three-year-old; same mentality and same effect - I just kind of laugh at the futility and childishness of it; but it was an attack nonetheless. Maybe it wasn't you - don't know, don't care. And nobody did start a thread here on what you're talking about. The thread was started about a success as I'm sure you well know.

4) It took Ali a long time to develop his condition. But we know the cause of it. If it took some Kyusho person a long time to develop a condition, then that still qualifies, so has it happened or not? I honestly asked the question out of curiosity because I haven't been studying Kyusho Jitsu for very long, as you probably know from the fact that this was my first KO, but your defensive tone and the fact that you answered my question with another question leads me to believe that there is no evidence that DKI hurts people. I'd really like to know if it's happened, because, like I said, if DKI people are dangerous in class, then I'll seriously think about looking somewhere else for training. I don't plan on becoming dysfunctional out of loyalty to a reckless or unknowledgeable instructor or organization. I answered your question, so please answer mine. I don't care what the answer is, I just want to know what it is before I get into any trouble.

It's really sad that a guy can't go to a martial arts communtity discussion board and post about a successful class without being attacked, especially when the subtitle mentions friendliness. I mean, some topics are obviously flame threads and that's fine because people know it going in. Whew, check out The Study - all kinds of disagreement in there. But I can see where you're coming from, Rob. You seem to be (and maybe I'm wrong) like the extremely religious or the extremely political - you truly think that what you're saying is so correct that you can only be doing people a favor by trying to get them to your point of view. That's actually kind of admirable because it's not done out of pride or self-promotion. We're all here to learn and I can appreciate what you write about TCM and other such topics. But when you make it political, you really disappoint me and I tend to lose respect. But you've only done it once to me, so I can brush it off for now.

In the future, you should know that I very rarely ask rhetorical questions as it seems that my last one about DKI people getting hurt seemed to be. So if you have an answer to any of my questions, I honestly would appreciate info from you, as I'd be glad to answer any questions that I can, which is obviously fewer because I haven't studied as long.

 

[RRouuselot]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]OK, fair enough. You've seen it in other places, but there was no showcasing in our class and we know it's not necessary to have a bunch of people rush over because there were only a few of us in class and no spectators.



2)[font=&quot] [/font]But you aren't even trying to stay on topic here; you apparently just want to vent about someone who disagrees with you. And actually someone did "attack" me with a reputation ding. I mean, it's kind of like being attacked by a three-year-old; same mentality and same effect - I just kind of laugh at the futility and childishness of it; but it was an attack nonetheless. Maybe it wasn't you - don't know, don't care. And nobody did start a thread here on what you're talking about. The thread was started about a success as I'm sure you well know.



3)[font=&quot] [/font]It took Ali a long time to develop his condition. But we know the cause of it. If it took some Kyusho person a long time to develop a condition, then that still qualifies, so has it happened or not? I honestly asked the question out of curiosity because I haven't been studying Kyusho Jitsu for very long, as you probably know from the fact that this was my first KO, but your defensive tone and the fact that you answered my question with another question leads me to believe that there is no evidence that DKI hurts people. I'd really like to know if it's happened, because, like I said, if DKI people are dangerous in class, then I'll seriously think about looking somewhere else for training. I don't plan on becoming dysfunctional out of loyalty to a reckless or unknowledgeable instructor or organization. I answered your question, so please answer mine. I don't care what the answer is, I just want to know what it is before I get into any trouble.



4)[font=&quot] [/font]4) You seem to be (and maybe I'm wrong) like the extremely religious or the extremely political - you truly think that what you're saying is so correct that you can only be doing people a favor by trying to get them to your point of view.

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Interesting, then why is it Dillman and other DKI people do it if it’s not necessary?

2)[font=&quot] [/font]I am commenting on the very 1st post made by ppoko…“both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.”……so I AM on topic here.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Hmmm how to answer that question….shall I go around and have MRIs done on every single person it has been done too??? OR, should I look at statistical data regarding people being knocked out in relation to certain side effects???I think the later is more logical.

4)[font=&quot] [/font]Actually I am neither. I just dislike reading BS written by “hacks” about Kyusho and TCM

 

[ppko]

3)Hmmm how to answer that question….shall I go around and have MRIs done on every single person it has been done too??? OR, should I look at statistical data regarding people being knocked out in relation to certain side effects???I think the later is more logical.

Ok but you still dodge the answer, and you do not even attempt to comment on my statement.

 

[RRouuselot]

Ok but you still dodge the answer, and you do not even attempt to comment on my statement.

I did answer the question.......re-read my answer and you will see this statement. I think the later is more logical.

 

[RRouuselot]

So by your assumption (beings that is obviously what it is from this post) anyone including yourself that has been KOd (now you do realize that by your own post you assume that teacher now know longer matters) could end up like Ali.

Is this your "question"?
Sorry, most people use a "?" when asking a question.....I don't see one in your post.

I think it is actaully you that has yet to address my point I made here and several months ago.....you claim your hitting pressure points is what causes those knockouts....interesting since you are hitting no less than 5 points...and that stuff you do to people afterwards is fixing the p.points.....and still can't tell me which one exactly cause the KO as you "claim".

 

[ppko]

Is this your "question"?
Sorry, most people use a "?" when asking a question.....I don't see one in your post.

I never said it was a question it was a statement, but lets just say that it was a question.

 

[RRouuselot]

I never said it was a question it was a statement, but lets just say that it was a question.

Seems obvious really.........a KO is a KO.

 

[Xequat]

1)Interesting, then why is it Dillman and other DKI people do it if it’s not necessary?

2)I am commenting on the very 1st post made by ppoko…“both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.”……so I AM on topic here.

3)Hmmm how to answer that question….shall I go around and have MRIs done on every single person it has been done too??? OR, should I look at statistical data regarding people being knocked out in relation to certain side effects???I think the later is more logical.

4)Actually I am neither. I just dislike reading BS written by “hacks” about Kyusho and TCM

1) I don't care. The point is that we didn't.

2) Nice try, but this is thread about a successful class, not about your differences with the style and you know it.

3) Yes, that would be fine. Run your MRI's por whatever you need to do just like they did for Ali. If you have any evidence, whether it's MRI's or testimonies then please share them, but it seems more and more from your lack of producing evidence that there is none. I don't care how hard it is for you to bring evidence; it's up to you to find it since you're the one who's accusing people of being hacks. So prove it. If you can, then that's great and we'll all learn something. If not, then you lose. Either way, I don't care. But have you looked at this statistical data? If so, where can I find it?

4) So we've gone from "Hey everyone, I just had a great class" to "you are dealing with hacks." Yeah, that's on topic. Look, I'm sure you know a ton about TCM and kyusho jitsu, but you don't know everything, so please don't act like it. That's why we had the Dark Ages; people thought there was nothing else to learn, so they stopped trying and society got stupid, in a nutshell. Like I've said before, I can respect what you write when it's informative and not too opinionated, and of course, on topic.

 

[Seig]

Admin Warning

Keep the discussion polite and respectful.

Seig
Mt Ops Admin

 

[RRouuselot]

1) I don't care. The point is that we didn't.

2) Nice try, but this is thread about a successful class, not about your differences with the style and you know it.

3) Yes, that would be fine. Run your MRI's por whatever you need to do just like they did for Ali. If you have any evidence, whether it's MRI's or testimonies then please share them, but it seems more and more from your lack of producing evidence that there is none. I don't care how hard it is for you to bring evidence; it's up to you to find it since you're the one who's accusing people of being hacks. So prove it. If you can, then that's great and we'll all learn something. If not, then you lose. Either way, I don't care. But have you looked at this statistical data? If so, where can I find it?

4) So we've gone from "Hey everyone, I just had a great class" to "you are dealing with hacks." Yeah, that's on topic. Look, I'm sure you know a ton about TCM and kyusho jitsu, but you don't know everything, so please don't act like it. That's why we had the Dark Ages; people thought there was nothing else to learn, so they stopped trying and society got stupid, in a nutshell. Like I've said before, I can respect what you write when it's informative and not too opinionated, and of course, on topic.

1) So you are not doing things the way Dillman does?? Does this mean you know more than he claims to?

2) It’s the focus of his post…..ppko was saying you were successful at the KO....it's part of the topic in his original post.

3) Now you are just being spiteful since you know I am not mistaken about it. There is enough information on the web and elsewhere about the effects of the trauma caused by being KOed. Look for it.

4)As for the “hack” part of your comment….I have shown/proven….or should I say others have shown and proven their lack of knowledge about pp, kyusho, TCM etc. time and time again. Surf through my previous discussions with certain folks on here if you want to.

 

[Cruentus]

Just for fun...

first aid for KO's or unconsciousness:

"If the person is breathing, and a spinal injury is NOT suspected, and he is lying on his back, carefully roll him toward you onto his side. Bend the top leg so both hip and knee are at right angles. Gently tilt the head back to keep the airway open.

and...

If you witness a person fainting, try to prevent him or her from falling. Lie the person flat on the floor and elevate the feet about 12 inches.


Found here - http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000022.htm#Causes

Also on the dangers of Knocking people out (don't know how legit this guy is though, but he is apparently a TCM practitioner):

If a person is hit in the head, it does not matter which acupuncture point was hit or wether KO occured, there will be slight brain damage. This damage is most clearly noticable in people who practice boxing. The effects are not noticable when people are young, they believe that there is nothing wrong and that everthing is fine.

However the effects begin to emerge as the years go by and people develop what is known as symptoms of bieng punch drunk. In extream cases there are more severe symptoms similar to parkinsons disease, shaking of the hands and an inability to control the limbs.

If a dim mak strike does cause knock out (wether it was through a blow to the head or not) the sudden blood pressure drop deprives the brain of oxygen enriched blood for a period of time. This damages the ability of the brain to function properly.

found here - http://www.tai-chi-chuan.demon.co.uk/longterm.html

So...there ya go...

Paul

 

[Xequat]

1) So you are not doing things the way Dillman does?? Does this mean you know more than he claims to?

2) It’s the focus of his post…..ppko was saying you were successful at the KO....it's part of the topic in his original post.

3) Now you are just being spiteful since you know I am not mistaken about it. There is enough information on the web and elsewhere about the effects of the trauma caused by being KOed. Look for it.

4)As for the “hack” part of your comment….I have shown/proven….or should I say others have shown and proven their lack of knowledge about pp, kyusho, TCM etc. time and time again. Surf through my previous discussions with certain folks on here if you want to.

1) LOL Well, stupid text. I can't tell if you're serious or trying to lighten things up for sure, but I'll go with option B. Thanks for that.

2) Right, but there are plenty of other threads for you to talk about how ppko is a hack and how you don't agree with his methods. This is not one of them. I could take a topic out of just about any post here and change the entire direction of the thread if I wanted to. We both know what the purpose of this thread was and we are way off the mark now (including me, I admit. I should have let it go, but I really thought I had to respond.)

3) OK, that's just laughable. You made a very insulting accusation and now you want me to prove it? Hmm, why not accuse me of a crime and then have me round up evidence and ask myself questions on the stand? Wow. I mean, maybe you are right, but the burden's on you to prove it.

4) You proved that who's a hack? Just refer me to some of these threads and I'll read them. I'll never find them on here because all of the search words I'd use would give me so many responses that I'd never get through them all and I don't have time for that.