So Long, And thanks for all the fish

[Archangel M]

Plenty of pee in martial arts forum pools too.

 

[Tez3]

I do fail to see how asking someone to express their thoughts in their own words is construed as wanting to shut that person up! Seems odd that asking people to express what they mean is taken as wanting to shut them up, unless someone knows something I don't.

As for not agreeing with some posters, I might if I knew what they were talking about rather than having to watch endless videos of others talking.

 

[Grenadier]

Material discussed in The Study will usually bring about some heat. For that matter, if we didn't disagree on such matters, we'd be a world full of automatons, without independent thought.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. Even if you don't have to respect that particular opinion, you still have to respect someone's right to an opinion, and many of these posts in this forum are going to be strongly opinionated. While some people's feelings may be hurt by the expression of such opinions, as long as the said statements are within the rules, and do not attack the individuals themselves, it's going to be considered as part of a heated discussion.

If you don't like the opinions epxressed by someone, then feel free to attack such opinions in a civil manner. You'll earn a lot more respect from everyone, ESPECIALLY yourself, if you can do it in this manner.

If you don't like the heat of a particular conversation, then either grow a thicker skin, or don't partake in that particular conversation.

If you see a clear violation of the rules, then use the Report to Moderator feature. If it's a valid complaint, then we'll deal with it. However, don't expect us to ban someone right away. These things take time to sort out, and are usually not going to be finished within 1 hour...

Furthermore, using the RTM feature as a weapon against others for slight heat, does no good. First, and foremost, it cheapens the value of your statements (for those who don't understand, read the fable of "The Boy Who Cried 'Wolf.'"), and second, it makes you look like a whiner.



Most of us (staff and members) are martial artists of some sort. Many of you have a good bit of experience in the martial arts.

Although we may practice different styles, throughout the years of practice and training, it is a common thing, that we've developed a sense of discipline that goes above and beyond what your average Joe Q. Public has. This isn't a boast, nor is based on any form of arrogance; it's simply a statement of the truth. We can push ourselves beyond what previously conceived limits were in our minds and bodies, and we constantly strive to transcend future limits.

I ask that everyone use that sense of discipline when posting here in The Study. When I see posters flaming each other with personal attacks over trivial things, it sometimes makes me wonder where that sense of discipline is?

Y'all are better than that. I know for certain, that if someone of you eager to duel with each other on a forum, would be more than happy to sit down at a tavern, and enjoy several pints of cold beer, while discussing matters in a far more civil manner. For that matter, anyone visiting my area who I've had heated words with on this forum (and there are several of you ), is more than welcome to come on over, and I'll happily share a plate of barbecue and some draughts of cold beer with you.

 

[Touch Of Death]

supporting member only is something i would support.

That would kill it. May as well discontinue it before it dies slowly.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

it isnt an "insignificant insult"

not even meant as an insult at all.

just as a statement of my opinion of your character.

if you think it is insulting......................maybe you should think about that

And while you are at it, ask yourself why you are ok with censorship?

I'm totally OK with consorship and I don't need to think about it.
Sean

 

[Xue Sheng]

It is stupid of some to imagine that because the more intelligent and freedom loving people on here don't like the way the Study is going that it is because they can't stand others disgreeing with them. It's a smokescreen, nothing more. The people who throw out this 'oh you don't like being disgreed with' are the self same people who actually really don't like being disagreed with. It reminds me of the callow youth who when turned down for a date by a girl, hurls the insult at her 'oh you must be a lesbian'.
It is extremely funny that Billcihak who hasn't been here as long as most should say to Canuck that he should come back anytime, as if he owned the site and as always he has that handy media link for our delectation and amusement. You really can't get much patronising.

I said a while back that the persistant right wing takeover of the Study would drive people off the Study, a place that before had been a place of some heated arguments but also a lot of informative exchanges of lifestyles, information and educaton. I was 'shouted down', told to put people on ignore, to leave etc but why should I? To leave it as it stands, as Stevebjj says is to imply that we agrees with what is being said. Ken Morgan is correct, if we do nothing then evil indeed will happen. So no I won't leave, I won't be driven off, and I won't ignore, the posts don't upset me, they invoke no emotions whatsoever other than a desire to have all sides represented. Have your say by all means but don't start howling because we challenge them, and you do, we've had this 'leave if you don't like it' a few times now, it's getting repetitive. We've also had the 'you don't like people disagreeing with you' schtick too, I suppose it saves answering our points, especially when you don't have an answer.

What I don't think people realise is that as Canuck says, the tone of the Study is what is disturbing on many levels, it's as if some people are venting the frustrations of their lives on posters here. Political discussions can be great fun but recently the feeling that only some people are right and the rest of us are not is seeping all through the study. We don't get opinions we get links to media outlets, parrotting the same twisted rhetoric. Now I enjoy a good speech or article even if I don't agreed with the premise but twisting the truth to fit in with certain beliefs is a dangerous game to play. Saying that right wing people are all sweetness and light and all left wingers are murderers is ridiculous, no one can take that seriously. Saying that criminals and murderers are left wing because the right wing don't do things like that is silliness beyond belief. How can we have proper, informative discussion when one side believes that Botha and his Apartheid thugs were left wing and Nelson Mandela is right wing? How can we believe what some one who thought Maggie Thatcher was a socialist says? All rational thought and facts fly out the window when you get twisted logic like that.

The tone has also turned belligerant, growling at someone that they are on illegal drugs or drunk doesn't enhance the experience of having a discussion on here. Give and take with a modicum of sarcasm and a leavening of humour used to be the way here now it's growling, snarling and insults. Why would any sane person want to spend time here if they could be doing something better, interacting with people from different cultures and countries used to be a pleasure, now its a chore if we are to stop the constant flow of misinformation. And there is misinformation, one reason I do respond is to contradict the often wrong view taken of events here. The union debate for example, I don't know how unions work in the States but I do know how they work here, my father was a big union man, I also know how much good they do in many countries with education, welfare and workers rights and I know too that many union officials get persecuted for belonging to a union. To sinply say all unions are bad is to miss the point totally. this isn't the only subject to be treated like this. The point of the Study is surely so we can have a full frank exchange of ideas and experiences.

The other problem with the Study at the moment is that many are simplyfying things, dumbing it down. Hugely complicated issues like the Middle East are reduced to one liners, sweeping generalisations as I've mentioned already kill discussons stone dead. We have so many one line posts now you can't have a conversation, the one line being a link to a political pundit.

Do battles have to be fought? Of course they do, what you get if you don't fight back at grassroots level (that's the Study) as well as higher is a Nazi Germany, people know now in hindsight that if more had fought it then, the insidious propaganda and lies, the small beginnings of censorships ( telling us to leave or ignore) leading to worse, we wouldn't have had the rise of the abominable.

That is an eye opening post for me Tez. I appreciate how you feel about this.

My issue is not with disavowing the Study as generally I do this anyway and believe the world will hardly change by my absence from it. My issue is not with that. My issue is rather that this forum as I perceive it, is OVERRUN by the Study area now.

I miss when MT was mostly about "the friendly discussion of Martial Arts" or whatever it used to say.

:asian:

 

[Archangel M]

For a bunch of Martial Artists there sure seems to be a lot of tender feelings around here. It seems like people can shake off the odd punch to the face easier than they can shake off getting their feelings hurt.

Then again, I've noticed that about people in general for a while now.

 

[Xue Sheng]

IMO nothing to do with shaking it off...more to do with why bother in the first place... basically the study boils down to this IMO (and this will likely get me in trouble)

Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

And that was not directed at anyone person it was directed at my overall view of what the study actually is all about and where I place it in the overall scheme of things

EDIT
Just a note, one more thing about how I feel... in the real world, face to face, half the stuff that goes on in the study would not happen. You can't hide behind the anonymity of the web in the face to face real world... and again that was not directed at anyone person it was directed at my overall view of what the study actually is all about and where I place it in the overall scheme of things

 

[Ken Morgan]

For a bunch of Martial Artists there sure seems to be a lot of tender feelings around here. It seems like people can shake off the odd punch to the face easier than they can shake off getting their feelings hurt.

Then again, I've noticed that about people in general for a while now.

Agreed. It's as if we now have developed the right not to be offended. It's a big world, something, somewhere is going to offend you and your beliefs, how you answer to it defines you as a person.

 

[Tez3]

From my point of view my feelings aren't being hurt, my feelings aren't tender and I can take it and give it, not bothered. I get enough neg reps telling me how awful I am, but I don't bother complaining and I'm sure people whinge that I challenge their points of view, that's what debate is. It seems to me more that some don't like being challenged to justify their points of view. Challenge my point of view and I will tell you why I think like that, what my experience is to cause me to take that view, in fact I will probably bore you stupid with my whys and wherefores. I want to know in return why you think the way you do, what makes you think the way you do, why you take a particular political standpoint. That's fair and that's reasonable.

 

[elder999]

The Study used to be a lively place with good debates.

Lately there is entirely too much demented, twisted crap, mostly from the same 2 posters.

It's not fun anymore, there are not enough good threads left. I may come back eventually, I'll haver a look once in a while to see if the tone changes and look at PMs, but overall I'm done here.


Yet another good place ruined by the toxic climate that is American politics.

While we've had our own disagreements, I, for one, am very, very sorry to see yet another voice of reason driven away.

 

[granfire]

I have to say while I don't agree with him all the time (a good thing in general though) I do know I will miss the opportunity to learn from him.