Skill set - expectations?

[Bonhomme]

Recently, at my school, some black belts were 'choreographing' a fight for their promotion ceremony. There were (2) 3rd Dans and (1) 4th Dan and they were being promoted to 4th and 5th, respectively. While practicing, one of them took a pretty hard punch to the jaw. What surprised me is that the one who got punched didn't even attempt to block or evade it, so I asked why and the response was that there was confusion among the 3 of them and he wasn't expecting the punch at that time.

While I know rank standards are all over the place, but I really expected an experienced martial artist to be able to defend themselves against an unexpected strike, even if they were working out a planned 'dance'. Isn't that part of self-defense, protecting yourself from the unexpected? Am I wrong in thinking he should have been able to block or evade rather than taking that punch? Opinions?

 

[skribs]

BJ Penn was a phenomenal grappler who got his BJJ black belt in 3 years and was a UFC champion. He got knocked out in a bar fight because he underestimated his opponent.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You're never going to be able to block everything, especially from a close distance. If you did, fights would be boring since nothing would ever land.

 

[Cri70]

While I know rank standards are all over the place, but I really expected an experienced martial artist to be able to defend themselves against an unexpected strike, even if they were working out a planned 'dance'. Isn't that part of self-defense, protecting yourself from the unexpected? Am I wrong in thinking he should have been able to block or evade rather than taking that punch? Opinions?

Well, first thing precious few martial arts are about self defense: they are art - which gives full sense, for example, in investing your time in choreographing a fight. So an experienced martial artist isn't necessarily experienced at self-defense, and arguably most aren't.

Second - the mindset is everything, and visual reaction time is what it is. Nobody is ever in a full awareness state, and if you are in a friendly environment it's when you're most vulnerable - ask Julius Caesar Finally visual reaction is simply too slow to protect from an near punch - the moment your brain processes the image, it's landing. That's why (unarmed) self defense seldom relies on visual input.

 

[marvin8]

Recently, at my school, some black belts were 'choreographing' a fight for their promotion ceremony. There were (2) 3rd Dans and (1) 4th Dan and they were being promoted to 4th and 5th, respectively. While practicing, one of them took a pretty hard punch to the jaw. What surprised me is that the one who got punched didn't even attempt to block or evade it, so I asked why and the response was that there was confusion among the 3 of them and he wasn't expecting the punch at that time.

While I know rank standards are all over the place, but I really expected an experienced martial artist to be able to defend themselves against an unexpected strike, even if they were working out a planned 'dance'. Isn't that part of self-defense, protecting yourself from the unexpected? Am I wrong in thinking he should have been able to block or evade rather than taking that punch? Opinions?

If you are in punching range, it's hard to block a punch while your hands are down or crossed at your chest because of reaction time. With your hands up near your face, you have a chance to block it. An experiment showing this here.

Mick Coup's video shows it's hard to block a punch while in punching range even if your attacker telegraphs it. It's important for MAists to understand ranges, hand positions and reaction time for both defense and offense.

 

[windwalker099]

Am I wrong in thinking he should have been able to block or evade rather than taking that punch? Opinions?

Depends

On the training, and if, or how it was "burned" in.

Timing,
3 Phases:

Before: Preparing and anticipating actions before they occur.
During: Executing actions at the optimal moment while they are happening.
After: Analyzing and responding to actions after they have occurred.

3 Types of Actions:

Active: Proactively initiating actions or movements.
Reactive: Responding to actions or stimuli from others.
Passive: Maintaining a state of readiness or neutrality, allowing for observation and conservation of energy until the right moment to act.

there was confusion among the 3 of them and he wasn't expecting the punch at that time.

"Burned in" refers to training that has been deeply ingrained through repetition and practice.

Being able to "take" an unexpected punch might be a product of such training.

What you might be thinking about is called "hypervigilance."
Hypervigilance is not always beneficial if it is not needed within the environment where one spends most of their time.

Example:

A friend of mine trained to react unconsciously to changes in his environment.

One day, he mentioned that his wife approached him from behind while he was cutting meat in the kitchen.
He turned around very quickly with his knife in his hand, unaware of his reaction.

After this incident, he had to consciously de-train himself for fear of what might happen in similar situations.

 

[Bonhomme]

Thanks for the insights, it gives me good stuff to think about and helps me have a more realistic view of abilities vs situations.