Six core elements

[Kung Fu Wang]

Nothing wrong with abstraction. The object model that the decedent inherits the parent/parents attributes are physical clear. But

- physical,
- mind,

are just too abstract and carry no concrete meaning at all.

 

[Argus]

Nothing wrong with abstraction. The object model that the decedent inherits the parent/parents attributes are physical clear. But

- physical,
- mind,

are just too abstract and carry no concrete meaning at all.

They can have meaning, and that meaning itself can be concrete or abstract/conceptual. The problem is that they need to be defined. My point is that it's the lack of definition that makes them meaningless, rather than the level of abstraction.

 

[Marnetmar]

Jesus Christ is this discussion really still happening?

 

[Shajikfer]

Hendrik:

The word "style" has no meaning to me but I do believe some CMA systems has better "power generation method" than the others. For example, in the Baji system, I can just use 3 basic solo drills to train how to generate 3 different power (cross power, sinking power, twisting power). I don't see those training methods exist in some systems such as my favor long fist system. Will you be able to show some drills that a beginner can just spend 3 months training time and get good result from your suggested "power generation method"?

Will you be able to put up a clip to show that one can use your suggested "power generation method" to hit hard on a heavy bag (or just hit onto the thin air)? Some clips like this? Also what's the "common denominator" between your approach and CXW's approach?

Correct me if wrong but the power generation comes from strong rooting and how the physical energy is channeled up through the core and expressed outwardly by the hands. Those that follow a straighter line instead of curve should generate more power? If that IS the case, then wouldn't wing chun systems which maintain more linear technique be technically stronger with power generation?

I'm still a novice with the art, I only ask for the sake of better understanding and seeing if I can modify my techniques to have that better power generation.

 

[Danny T]

Jesus Christ is this discussion really still happening?

No one posted anything for the past couple of days until now. Thanks for keeping it going.
Did I just do that?!!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Correct me if wrong but the power generation comes from strong rooting and how the physical energy is channeled up through the core and expressed outwardly by the hands. Those that follow a straighter line instead of curve should generate more power? If that IS the case, then wouldn't wing chun systems which maintain more linear technique be technically stronger with power generation?

I'm still a novice with the art, I only ask for the sake of better understanding and seeing if I can modify my techniques to have that better power generation.

Teachers from many systems (such as long fist, praying mantis, ...) may say that if you have good foundation (how good foundation is good?) and train long enough (how long training is long?), you will be able to generate power. Some styles such as Baji, Chen Taiji, and XingYi Liu He all have a set of power generation drills that if you just keep training those drills, you will get your power generation in a short period of time. Those styles don't have to use abstract terms such as "physical, mind, breathing, Qi medirian flow, force flow, and momentum" to be associated with the "power generation". Instead, those styles just use simple physics such as "compress and release". Actually if you just know how to "compress", the "release" is just come natural.

Will it be better to "do by drills" than to "talk by theory"? I did ask Hendrik to put up some "drills clip" so we can compare the difference and similarity between his approach and other style's approaches.

- Baji,

- Chen Taiji,

- XingYi Liu He

 

[Hendrik]

 

[Hendrik]

 

[Hendrik]

 

[Minghe]

Good God Hendrik, you really look sick in those Video's! Are you okay? You really don't look well ..... well!

 

[Xue Sheng]

欲加之罪，何患无辞。

Here on I leave this forum forever.

So apparently this was not true either...

 

[geezer]

...Will it be better to "do by drills" than to "talk by theory"? I did ask Hendrik to put up some "drills clip" so we can compare the difference and similarity between his approach and other style's approaches.

I'm a little confused. I read this post by John followed by three clips of people physically demonstrating methods of movement and issuing force, exactly as stated above. Then Hendrick replies with three clips of nothing but lecture. What gives?

Interestingly, about half way through the first clip, Hendrick is dismissive of the old saying, "Mo gung kau, gung sau." (Don't work your mouth, work your hands.) Well I can certainly see why.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm a little confused. I read this post by John followed by three clips of people physically demonstrating methods of movement and issuing force, exactly as stated above. Then Hendrick replies with three clips of nothing but lecture. What gives?

Interestingly, about half way through the first clip, Hendrick is dismissive of the old saying, "Mo gung kau, gung sau." (Don't work your mouth, work your hands.) Well I can certainly see why.

Best thing to say as far as Hendrik is concerned 自相矛盾 (zìxiāngmáodùn)...does not surprise me at all [contradicting himself]

 

[Flying Crane]

Correct me if wrong but the power generation comes from strong rooting and how the physical energy is channeled up through the core and expressed outwardly by the hands. Those that follow a straighter line instead of curve should generate more power? If that IS the case, then wouldn't wing chun systems which maintain more linear technique be technically stronger with power generation?

I'm still a novice with the art, I only ask for the sake of better understanding and seeing if I can modify my techniques to have that better power generation.

I do not agree that linear necessarily generates more power than circular. In my system (not wing chun), even linear is circular. And it's all very powerful.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I do not agree that linear necessarily generates more power than circular. In my system (not wing chun), even linear is circular. And it's all very powerful.

Many look at Xingyiquan and say it is "linear" as well. However there are a lot of small circles in it that are very hard to see. Chen Taijiquan Silk reeling is all about circular movements and that is how they generate a whole lot of power too

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I do not agree that linear necessarily generates more power than circular. In my system (not wing chun), even linear is circular. And it's all very powerful.

The praying mantis "waist chop" is a good example. When your hand is so close to your opponent's body, in order to be able to generate enough power to achieve your goal, you will need to move your hand in a small circle.

Here is a "big circular power generation with full body rotation".

 

[kung fu fighter]

Good God Hendrik, you really look sick in those Video's! Are you okay? You really don't look well ..... well!

What do you hope to accomplish with these types of personal attacks??? Hendrik never personally attacked anyone on this thread, he is just sharing his view free of charge to try and help other chuners to get a different perspective on what they are practicing. Take it or leave it, but please no personal attacks.

 

[dlcox]

I do not agree that linear necessarily generates more power than circular. In my system (not wing chun), even linear is circular. And it's all very powerful.

Bingo

 

[dlcox]

Many look at Xingyiquan and say it is "linear" as well. However there are a lot of small circles in it that are very hard to see. Chen Taijiquan Silk reeling is all about circular movements and that is how they generate a whole lot of power too

Again, Bingo. Centrifugal force can generate more than linear force when propelled with the same amount of energy from the root source. Centrifugal force requires a small amount constant generation to create big force build up. Linear force is projected, if propelled with the same amount of initial generation the impact will not be equivalent.

 

[dlcox]

Correct me if wrong but the power generation comes from strong rooting and how the physical energy is channeled up through the core and expressed outwardly by the hands. Those that follow a straighter line instead of curve should generate more power? If that IS the case, then wouldn't wing chun systems which maintain more linear technique be technically stronger with power generation?

I'm still a novice with the art, I only ask for the sake of better understanding and seeing if I can modify my techniques to have that better power generation.

Think AC/DC, one has the ability to travel over distance while maintaining the force generated, the other loses the generated force over the distance travelled. You must keep in mind that as the force is directed through the "Governors" and "Chancellors" body movement is responsible for the maintenance of the generated force. The wave form of a whip is a good example. How the power is generated and how it travels to its directed destination. Also Yong Chun is more circular than it appears.