Singing the National Anthem

[jks9199]

I just read an interesting piece at CNN by a Mennonite preacher. He was addressing why Goshen College, a Mennonite college here in Virginia, has stopped playing the National Anthem before sports events -- and why he doesn't generally do it. As I read it, it amounts to their belief in a very strict separation of church and state, and that ideally there should be no nations, only Christianity.

Although there certainly are diverse viewpoints among individual Mennonites today, we continue to advocate for the strict separation of church and state. Most Mennonite churches do not have flags inside them, and many Mennonites are uncomfortable with the ritual embedded in the singing of the national anthem.
That’s because we recognize only one Christian nation, the church, the holy nation that is bound together by a living faith in Jesus rather than by man-made, blood-soaked borders.
...
These convictions do not reflect ingratitude or hatred for our country. Rather, they reflect a deep love for the church and a passionate desire for the church to be the church.
Mennonite beliefs and practices seem bizarre to some and offensive to others. But it’s life in this strange tribe that keeps me faithful to what I believe. I love my country, but I sing my loyalty and pledge my allegiance to Jesus alone.

Full article at My Faith: Why I don't sing the 'Star Spangled Banner'

Interesting take... What do others think?

 

[Big Don]

I just read an interesting piece at CNN by a Mennonite preacher. He was addressing why Goshen College, a Mennonite college here in Virginia, has stopped playing the National Anthem before sports events -- and why he doesn't generally do it. As I read it, it amounts to their belief in a very strict separation of church and state, and that ideally there should be no nations, only Christianity.



Full article at My Faith: Why I don't sing the 'Star Spangled Banner'

Interesting take... What do others think?

It is important to note, while Goshen College does not play the National Anthem, neither does it seek to keep others from playing it.

The complete lyrics of the song are quite violent, after all:
[FONT=Monotype Corsiva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Star Spangled Banner Lyrics
By Francis Scott Key 1814

[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave![/FONT]

 

[billc]

I have to say that I really like our national anthem. The martial and defiant spirit of the lyrics seem appropriate to the country. as far as not playing the national anthem, I guess if it is a private school it would be up to the directors of the school to make that call. If it was a state school, I would say they need to play the anthem as part of the inculcating a spirit of national unity.

 

[Carol]

Soooo.....Goshen College never played the anthem until last year, when they decided to start playing it. National news was made. Goshen then reversed the decision. National news was made again.

Enrollment is down at Goshen College, eh? Cuz this reads more like a school with a tight budget trying to get their name out by controversy rather than short-term means such as advertising, or longer-term means such as student success and academic excellence.

Hate to sound so cyncal, but this just doesn't strike me as much of a testament to sound belief...nor does it sound like a particularly sound way to run a college. Gimmicks only go so far...

 

[MA-Caver]

The Mennonites and Christianity didn't win any wars for the U.S. so until then they need to STFU.
... and deal with it.

 

[granfire]

ah, Mennonites....

(so much could be said...half my family tree comes down that way...)

As an extreme sect of the faith I would expect an extreme stance (in the olden days they were exempt from military service)
However, lots of politics as within any group of society...

(so I tend to agree with Carol on that...)

 

[MA-Caver]

It is important to note, while Goshen College does not play the National Anthem, neither does it seek to keep others from playing it.

The complete lyrics of the song are quite violent, after all:
[FONT=Monotype Corsiva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Star Spangled Banner Lyrics
By Francis Scott Key 1814

[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave![/FONT]

Reading the lyrics and having the tune in my head... man that is a complicated song... kept getting mixed up... yeah, worse than Christine Aguleria

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I note that when I go to a sporting event and they play the National Anthem prior to the beginning of the game, half the crowd doesn't stand up, doesn't remove their hats, and don't stop talking. Yet I'm sure if you questioned them, they'd be offended at the very thought that they might not be true patriots. It was better for awhile after 9/11, but not that much.

 

[Ken Morgan]

It’s different today than when the Mennonites first came to North America, but if it wasn’t for the freedom of the state they are in, they would not have the freedom to practice their interpretation of their faith.

Most professional sporting events I go to play the Canadian and American national anthems, I stand for the American one as well as my own, simply out of respect. Certainly the Mennonites may do as they wish, but as they use/ benefit from US money, obey US law, and interact with Americans all day long, standing to show respect for another does not mean that you are not loyal to your own.

 

[granfire]

It’s different today than when the Mennonites first came to North America, but if it wasn’t for the freedom of the state they are in, they would not have the freedom to practice their interpretation of their faith.

Most professional sporting events I go to play the Canadian and American national anthems, I stand for the American one as well as my own, simply out of respect. Certainly the Mennonites may do as they wish, but as they use/ benefit from US money, obey US law, and interact with Americans all day long, standing to show respect for another does not mean that you are not loyal to your own.

Well, I am of old world Mennonite stock...like I said, they held privileges in the Old World because of their faith...but it did vary from sovereign to sovereign....

but yeah, some people just plain lack respect...and I don't see it change any times soon.

 

[tshadowchaser]

If it is their belife then it is their right not to stand. My personal opion is that they should show respect for the country that allows them to hold their belifes by standing but thats just me.

I do wish that people that sing the Anthem at sporint events would learn the tune, the words and realise that the song is about and for the nation not to so how much they can **** it up with their own varriation. however that is a different subject in and of itself

 

[Sensei Payne]

I have to say that I really like our national anthem. The martial and defiant spirit of the lyrics seem appropriate to the country. as far as not playing the national anthem, I guess if it is a private school it would be up to the directors of the school to make that call. If it was a state school, I would say they need to play the anthem as part of the inculcating a spirit of national unity.

I second this.

Since it is a private school, its their call on weather or not they play it or not. What they do is there business, and nothing to do with the Tax payers.

I also agree with them on the staunch seperation of chruch and state. Church has no place in government. Thats the way our founding Fathers wanted it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Considering also that freedom means freedom to not show respect. I'm not referring to the church group here, but in general. If one is required to show respect to their nation, that's not respect, and if it's enforced, it's not freedom.

What kind of ingrate doesn't love their own country? I don't know. But certain a free country can tolerate not being loved or respected by some citizens.

I know I don't ever want to find myself in a country where the National Anthem requires respect "or else," nor do I want to find myself in a country where national pride is conflated with notions of worship. I love my country, I've served my country, I have great respect for my country. I won't worship my country, and there are times when I think the "Love it or you should have your citizenship revoked and be tossed out like the scum you are" attitude goes a bit far in that direction.

 

[Blade96]

i loved to sing the star spangled banner when i was a kid and teenager, I just really liked the song.

and my own anthem as well. heck they're all pretty.

 

[MaxiMe]

I note that when I go to a sporting event and they play the National Anthem prior to the beginning of the game, half the crowd doesn't stand up, doesn't remove their hats, and don't stop talking. Yet I'm sure if you questioned them, they'd be offended at the very thought that they might not be true patriots. It was better for awhile after 9/11, but not that much.

Interesting, went to a ball game with my Dad a few weeks ago and was impressed. Even the staff door persons stood at basically attention during the singing. Even though they couldn't see the monitors or the feild.
Oh well could be that we are in a heavily military area and it was Army day at the ballpark.
And of course the leather necks were polite to the doggies.

 

[Carol]

It’s different today than when the Mennonites first came to North America, but if it wasn’t for the freedom of the state they are in, they would not have the freedom to practice their interpretation of their faith.

Most professional sporting events I go to play the Canadian and American national anthems, I stand for the American one as well as my own, simply out of respect. Certainly the Mennonites may do as they wish, but as they use/ benefit from US money, obey US law, and interact with Americans all day long, standing to show respect for another does not mean that you are not loyal to your own.

And showing respect for one another can take many different forms.

This is from the 2007 Disability Awareness Day at Fenway Park. A young man with autism sings the anthem and starts to lose his nerve, but the Red Sox fans aren't about to let him fall.

[yt]NhcZRFcjbhw[/yt]

 

[Blade96]

How cute!

 

[Balrog]

As I read it, it amounts to their belief in a very strict separation of church and state, and that ideally there should be no nations, only Christianity.
...
Interesting take... What do others think?

I read it the same way. Fundies are annoying overall, but religious whackjobs like this are scary.

 

[granfire]

And showing respect for one another can take many different forms.

This is from the 2007 Disability Awareness Day at Fenway Park. A young man with autism sings the anthem and starts to lose his nerve, but the Red Sox fans aren't about to let him fall.

[yt]NhcZRFcjbhw[/yt]

Best rendition ever!

 

[OKenpo942]

I agree that people should not be required to stand and place their hand over their heart, etc. That being said, I do believe that those who do not want to take part in the anthem should at least be quiet and show respect for those who do. I don't think it is too much to ask that they be considerate of others for a minute or maybe two.

James