simple reverse punch

[puunui]

A question for anyone who can answer it: With regard to a simple reverse punch, has the technique been improved upon bio-mechanically recently or are we talking about building faster, stronger, bigger athletes through 'modern training methods'?

I figure I would start a new thread. Personally, I think that the reverse punch, as trained on a makiwara, cannot be improved upon biomechanically. I think that the makiwara trains you to be biomechanically correct. Where the modern training methods would come in is as archtkd said, in the footwork, distancing, timing and set up immediately prior to launching that punch.

 

[mastercole]

I figure I would start a new thread. Personally, I think that the reverse punch, as trained on a makiwara, cannot be improved upon biomechanically. I think that the makiwara trains you to be biomechanically correct. Where the modern training methods would come in is as archtkd said, in the footwork, distancing, timing and set up immediately prior to launching that punch.

That is the thing. A Taekwondo practitioner has to work stepping training methods to an athletic level, and develop the distance and time to go with it. If you can out step and out maneuver your opponent in accord with time and distance, your opponent can not hit you, and you can hit them, at will.

This is what people who have never trained with elite Taekwondoin fail to understand, because? ... they never experienced it.

 

[Manny]

Thank you for the new post I think this could be a very good one. If you let me point out performing a reverse punch the correct way is an art these days, not only in TKD but I've seen this in other martial arts like karate and I am talking about the children, in dojang the liitle guys don't know how to do a fist, don't know how to trow a punch and this is s sad thing, I know deep in my hart that if we encourage the children to perform the basics the right way instead of trowing silly kicks we could make good martial arts practicioners.

I was teaching the right way to punch even at my ex dojang we practiced more kicks but there were the ocacions that we used our fists to slam the dummies (kicking shileds) and even doing kyorugi, once my samboniom cauight me with a nice and solid reverse punch and drove to the floor gasping for air.

These days I still practicing my rfeverse punch, not with makiwara but doing it at one steps, ho si sul and basics and I have such a nice reverse punch that really amazes me, afther all these years my reverse punch has improved.

So keep practice the reverse punch believe it becomes handy when need to shut up the bigmouths.

Manny

 

[Archtkd]

T
These days I still practicing my rfeverse punch, not with makiwara but doing it at one steps, ho si sul and basics and I have such a nice reverse punch that really amazes me, afther all these years my reverse punch has improved.

So keep practice the reverse punch believe it becomes handy when need to shut up the bigmouths.

Manny

I think you can borrow a few techniques to polish this punch from your tough and famous Mexican boxers.

Use the kicking pads as a mitt. One of the things I do almost daily to develop the step is to use two paddles. I will step forward and stab the student in the belly with one paddle, which forces them to block with their forehand while sliding forward. I do this while holding the second paddle with my other hand for the student to hit it with a reverse punch. Make sure the student does not step forward with a leading head; if they do that bang the head with the paddle. Also try to ensure the student's block smothers and sideswipes the mitt rather than just dropping their forehand hands cold on the mitt or simply placing that hands in front of the bellies or face. That helps students learn how to avoid poor and hand-extended frontal blocking techniques, which will get their arms/hands/wrists/fingers broken by a good kick.

The exercise must be done while you and the student are on the bicycle (bouncing) and sliding. It will also benefit you as an instructor because you have to be on your toes all them time.

Hope all that makes sense.

 

[puunui]

These days I still practicing my rfeverse punch, not with makiwara but doing it at one steps, ho si sul and basics and I have such a nice reverse punch that really amazes me, afther all these years my reverse punch has improved.

Have you ever trained using the makiwara?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I guess improved on could be a realtive term. The Makiwara is a great tool. It offers a different sort of target than a human body. The rotation of the fist on contact has no effect on the makiwara. While open to debate it may very well have an effect on portions of the body which are a more fluid mass thru hydrostatic shock. Other anatomical targets may be better suited for a vertiacal punch or a fist that is at a 45 degre angle. Most Makiwara seem to be set at Chest to Shoulder height although of course they could be higher or lower. Traing only at these levels may mislead someone vis a vis the needed angle for a higher level punch.

 

[mastercole]

I guess improved on could be a realtive term. The Makiwara is a great tool. It offers a different sort of target than a human body. The rotation of the fist on contact has no effect on the makiwara. While open to debate it may very well have an effect on portions of the body which are a more fluid mass thru hydrostatic shock. Other anatomical targets may be better suited for a vertiacal punch or a fist that is at a 45 degre angle. Most Makiwara seem to be set at Chest to Shoulder height although of course they could be higher or lower. Traing only at these levels may mislead someone vis a vis the needed angle for a higher level punch.

If a person only trained on the in-ground makiwara, and never punched anything else, that could possibly be a concern. However, for Taekwondo purposes, the makiwara at chest level is is perfect, that is where the hand wants to naturally align in a punch anyway. Add some bag work and application in live sparring and everything comes together nicely, at least that has been my experience.

 

[Manny]

Have you ever trained using the makiwara?

Very little, we had a set of them (don't remeber if 3 or 4) in JDK Central back in the mid 80's.

Manny

 

[puunui]

Very little, we had a set of them (don't remeber if 3 or 4) in JDK Central back in the mid 80's.

Manny

To me, that would be what I would consider old school, training which included regular work on a makiwara, which in korean is called either dalyonbong or kwongo.

 

[mastercole]

To me, that would be what I would consider old school, training which included regular work on a makiwara, which in korean is called either dalyonbong or kwongo.

They are very easy to make, and as long as you have some ground, you can post it in the ground and you are ready to go. Some practitioners who came to me many years ago for advise ended up making an in-ground makiwara and have trained on it continuously. Today they tell me it has been their best "teacher" and they feel they have possibly learned the most from training with it.

 

[Cyriacus]

You dont even need a Makiwara. A Tree, or solid Wall will work well for benefiting Biomechanics too.
What You *can* improve, is based on repetition in conjunction with the continued need to employ something resembling Technique in order to not injure Yourself, which can be quite good for Muscle Memory.

 

[puunui]

You dont even need a Makiwara. A Tree, or solid Wall will work well for benefiting Biomechanics too.
What You *can* improve, is based on repetition in conjunction with the continued need to employ something resembling Technique in order to not injure Yourself, which can be quite good for Muscle Memory.

I think you need the flex on the makiwara to get the maximum result. Striking immovable objects is discouraged I believe.

 

[dancingalone]

That is the thing. A Taekwondo practitioner has to work stepping training methods to an athletic level, and develop the distance and time to go with it. If you can out step and out maneuver your opponent in accord with time and distance, your opponent can not hit you, and you can hit them, at will.

This is what people who have never trained with eliteTaekwondoin fail to understand, because? ... they never experienced it.

This is all relative is it not? Throw out the adjective elite as it seems unnecessary. I have duly noted that KKW taekwondoin can be noted for their evasive and attacking footwork. But while this is obviously a strong asset, it's not necessarily a trump card. A mediocre TKD player, even one trained in modern methods, will get his lunch taken placed in other situations versus ELITE martial artists training in other things. And no, I don't think even an elite TKD player facing an elite practitioner of another ilk will evade and strike his opponent at will.

Fighting is the ultimate test of relativity if you will. If TKD was the magic bullet, everyone would be training in it. Different training regimens for different goals and different people,..

 

[mastercole]

You dont even need a Makiwara. A Tree, or solid Wall will work well for benefiting Biomechanics too.
What You *can* improve, is based on repetition in conjunction with the continued need to employ something resembling Technique in order to not injure Yourself, which can be quite good for Muscle Memory.

The in-ground makiwara is a very flexible board, sticking out of ground to about chest high. It's value is found in it's spring board quality that allows the user to push deep, back against the force of the spring, during the execution of the punch.

Punching a wall or a tree is not the same thing, and I would never recommend it.

 

[mastercole]

This is all relative is it not? Throw out the adjective elite as it seems unnecessary. I have duly noted that KKW taekwondoin can be noted for their evasive and attacking footwork. But while this is obviously a strong asset, it's not necessarily a trump card. A mediocre TKD player, even one trained in modern methods, will get his lunch taken placed in other situations versus ELITE martial artists training in other things. And no, I don't think even an elite TKD player facing an elite practitioner of another ilk will evade and strike his opponent at will.

Fighting is the ultimate test of relativity if you will. If TKD was the magic bullet, everyone would be training in it. Different training regimens for different goals and different people,..

How does this sound: "If eating health were the magic bullet, everyone would be eating healthy" The public is generally ignorant about a lot of things these days, they are mostly motivated these days by marketing and advertising, and searching out quality is not the public's strong point.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. I do ask though, what do you base your opinion on, in regard to elite Taekwondoin?

My intention was to state that if a person was to move around with an elite Taekwondoin, it would be a very obvious the absolute importance of footwork in the delivery of striking skills. I say that based on my own person experience. not to compare one martial art to another.

 

[dancingalone]

How does this sound: "If eating health were the magic bullet, everyone would be eating healthy" The public is generally ignorant about a lot of things these days, they are mostly motivated these days by marketing and advertising, and searching out quality is not the public's strong point.

I do not refer to the general public. I refer to experienced and seasoned martial artists, both in sporting and non-sporting systems. If TKD was perceived as a super martial art, making its practitioner better in every outcome than an equally physically talented person trained in another style, we'd see everyone jump ship overnight and there would be an instant shortage of v-neck dobak.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. I do ask though, what do you base your opinion on, in regard to elite Taekwondoin?

I've never been on the floor with an Olympic contender in an Olympic rules match.

But I have randori with a few judo national team members from a variety of countries and I have sparred with some PKA competitors back when the organization was still around. I've also trained with some of the best aikido-ka and Goju-ryu karate-ka in the world. I think I've seen my share of martial excellence.

My intention was to state that if a person was to move around with an elite Taekwondoin, it would be a very obvious the absolute importance of footwork in the delivery of striking skills. I say that based on my own person experience. not to compare one martial art to another.

I would not disagree at all with that.

 

[Buka]

I figure I would start a new thread. Personally, I think that the reverse punch, as trained on a makiwara, cannot be improved upon biomechanically. I think that the makiwara trains you to be biomechanically correct. Where the modern training methods would come in is as archtkd said, in the footwork, distancing, timing and set up immediately prior to launching that punch.

Biomechanics, smiomechanics. Some Martial Artists can punch a hole in you with a reverse punch. Some of them work the makiwara, some do not. If you get hit by a nasty one, or God forbid, you run into it, the rest of your day (or week) is really going to s*ck. It's even going to hurt while you're driving home. And good luck sleeping in that recliner. The guys I know who have the best ones say it comes from their center, their Hara. It's not what they hit, it's what they emit.

 

[Cyriacus]

I think you need the flex on the makiwara to get the maximum result. Striking immovable objects is discouraged I believe.

Muay Thai Practitioners Kick Trees;
Kyokushin Karateka Punch Trees or Rocks;

Those are just examples though. Think about it. If You hit an immovable object with a bent wrist or somesuch, itll hurt You. Hit it right, and itll only contact Your Supported Knuckles. It forces You to do it right. If anything, Makiwara are just a different tool for a similar intent. Which is to a good extent, Conditioning. Coupled with Technique.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I do not refer to the general public. I refer to experienced and seasoned martial artists, both in sporting and non-sporting systems. If TKD was perceived as a super martial art, making its practitioner better in every outcome than an equally physically talented person trained in another style, we'd see everyone jump ship overnight and there would be an instant shortage of v-neck dobak.



I've never been on the floor with an Olympic contender in an Olympic rules match.

But I have randori with a few judo national team members from a variety of countries and I have sparred with some PKA competitors back when the organization was still around. I've also trained with some of the best aikido-ka and Goju-ryu karate-ka in the world. I think I've seen my share of martial excellence.



I would not disagree at all with that.

I think there is a belief with some people that to be an "elite" martial artist you have to have competed at a high level. This does not allow for martial arts not done for sport and the many people who have no interest in competing. Many elite martial artists have probably never competed in their life. Competition is not for everybody.

 

[mastercole]

Muay Thai Practitioners Kick Trees;
Kyokushin Karateka Punch Trees or Rocks;

Those are just examples though. Think about it. If You hit an immovable object with a bent wrist or somesuch, itll hurt You. Hit it right, and itll only contact Your Supported Knuckles. It forces You to do it right. If anything, Makiwara are just a different tool for a similar intent. Which is to a good extent, Conditioning. Coupled with Technique.

Kyokushinkai fonder Mas Oyama spent a lot of time using the Makiwara. Makiwara is all about technique, conditioning is a buzz word that I do not put a lot of faith in. I would never recommend anyone punch a rock or kick a tree, there is zero reason to do that.

How many years have you spent on training on the Makiwara?