Should "running" be part of your MA training?

[JowGaWolf]

No, British army use 1.5 miles.

This is the fitness level needed to join the British Army. http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/ADSC_Fitness_Selection_Standards.pdf


Press ups and sit up for trained soldiers.

Press Ups
Number of press ups to be achieved in 2 minutes.
Age
Under 30 - Male 44 - Female 21
30-34 - Male 41 - Female 19
35-39 -Male 39 - Female 16
40-44 - Male 35 - Female 15
Sit Ups
Number of sit ups to be achieved in 2 minutes
Age
Under 30 - Male & Female 50
30-34 - Male & Female 46
35-39 - Male & Female 43
40-44 - Male & Female 37


Official Army videos for fitness prior to joining up. Army Fit Videos - YouTube

Wow. I would have thought that that they the exercise would have to be done be less than 2 minutes. Does the 2 minutes take into consideration the person being tired from previous exercises that were done? Are all of the exercises done on the same day?

 

[Xue Sheng]

No, British army use 1.5 miles.

This is the fitness level needed to join the British Army. http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/ADSC_Fitness_Selection_Standards.pdf


Press ups and sit up for trained soldiers.

Press Ups
Number of press ups to be achieved in 2 minutes.
Age
Under 30 - Male 44 - Female 21
30-34 - Male 41 - Female 19
35-39 -Male 39 - Female 16
40-44 - Male 35 - Female 15
Sit Ups
Number of sit ups to be achieved in 2 minutes
Age
Under 30 - Male & Female 50
30-34 - Male & Female 46
35-39 - Male & Female 43
40-44 - Male & Female 37


Official Army videos for fitness prior to joining up. Army Fit Videos - YouTube

Interesting, so as it was suggested previously, one should be able to lift ones own body weight to be healthy.... so...how many 88lbs men are there in the RAC, Infantry, RLC, and REME. Because all they appear to have to be able to lift is 40Kg.

Frankly I thought the British solider was bigger

 

[Tez3]

Interesting, so as it was suggested previously, one should be able to lift ones own body weight to be healthy.... so...how many 88lbs men are there in the RAC, Infantry, RLC, and REME. Because all they appear to have to be able to lift is 40Kg.

Frankly I thought the British solider was bigger

Lifting body weight doesn't come in to it, it's a load of bollocks. doesn't matter how much you weigh it's how much you carry when you are tabbing or yomping if you are a Bootneck.

 

[Tez3]

35 years ago this week. This is yomping. To pass out as a Royal Marine Commando among other things you have to yomp for 30 miles carrying approx 120lbs. There's also a speed march as well as other interesting things to do. On operational tours they regularly carry up to 140lbs on patrol.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Lifting body weight doesn't come in to it, it's a load of bollocks. doesn't matter how much you weigh it's how much you carry when you are tabbing or yomping if you are a Bootneck.

On a bit of an associated side note. One of the hardest, most physically demanding martial arts classes I ever took was a Chen Taiji class, when my first shifu taught us Shandong province old style Chen, not your typical Taijiquan class by western standards. It was a 1.5 hour long class and the first 30 minutes was crawling. crab walking, races across floor running, crawling and crab walking and then there was the carry the other student on your back and walk across the floor exercise. The closest we got to a standard push up was the Hindu push up

Then class started, get into the Chen stance and stand there for a few minutes

Then forms and applications for the next 50 or so minutes, sometimes he ran long, low stances, kicks, jump kicks, punches, back fist. All striking was trained on focus pads and mits with fajin,

Oh and this thing in its variations (I could do 1 but never got to 2)

And after that class you were worn out.

That was an awesome class. When he started teaching this there were 2 classes and 60 students, by the time he finished teaching the form, there were only 6 of us left standing.

This was also the class I found out he was taking it easy on us as compared to the way he would teach in China because, as he said, most Americans would quit.... and even with taking it easy on us, most did quit. Oh and I also discovered that if a student messes up in China he would hit them if he so desired, mess up in America he just asks them to try it again.

 

[jobo]

why do you believe that how many push up a 55 year old should be expected to do differs from army to civilian? I don't know could be because by standards they do. Why do you believe they don't?

And your original statement, that started all this was not quite as forgiving. As for being picky I realize that. but there can be a world of difference between lift your own body weight and do a pull-up, without some sort of qualifying statement; pull-up, bench press, military press etc. they depend on different muscle groups

And out of all I typed you appeared to miss that those standards different within the military standards of the branches of the US military. They are basing their levels on score achieved by how many push ups, pull-ups they do and the score they need is 60% or better

General civilian heath standards but 50 to 59 year olds at an average of 9 to 17 push ups with >31 being excellent.

It is nice you have your standards and that you are going to doggedly maintain that you feel they should apply to all and that any who don't meet them are not worthy of a belt rank, but bottom line is this is a standard you have chosen to apply to yourself that, commendable, does not apply to anyone but yourself, that is unless they person you are talking to is in the Military. It is a nice standard to shoot for but if one does not meet it does not mean they are fat out of shape and undeserving of a ranking in a marital art.

And your original statement was specifically aimed at martial artists and seemed pretty cut and dried..



But your last statement... now that we have run the gambit from footballers and military people.



Seems to be more forgiving and less set in stone...but then your standard fitness level for a 55 year old does not match what is acceptable by civilian standards in the US which is 32 is excellent for 50 to 59, but 9 to 17 is average and still considered healthy.

Keep your standards, they are commendable, although I think somewhat on the high side, but applying those to everyone else, based on the standards out there which also differ, is simply not right..

I seriously doubt we will get anywhere with this, you are going to stick to your standards and I am going to stick to the actual standards set as applied to age group with in specific groups.

NOTE: I should add also that 1 might be able to do all the things you require, but have a horrible diet and although they may look good, they are not healthy at all. Then do they still deserve the belt rank? They could be a heart attack risk. Or maybe they achieved your standards thought other means like supplements (Steroids) again not healthy

the standards are different because one is the actual average of a population which is noted for being overweight having a bad diet and unfit, and the other is an average for fit active people who train , as maers should be defintion be fit active people who train,they should measure themselves to a higher standard than 250 lb wobberlers.

You seem to be determined to take the lowest standard as it makes you feel better about yourself rather than set yourself higher but achievable expectations'. That's rather the modern way.
you diet point is bogus, its hard bordering on the impossible to reach a high standard of fitness unless your diet is healthy,

I'm not trying to impose my standards, I'm not honestly that worried if you under achieved. But rather perplexed at marshal artists who are not trying to achieve their potential and strive for excellence. I see the same with my dojo, people remark how strong I am, like its some sort of gift rather than plain dedication that they could achieve. But I know im not strong, I'm just a lot stronger than they are. When I can do 15 pulls ups with a 20 kg weight I l think I'm strong, that is apparently one of the tests for the Russian special services, but quite away to go yet,
Why take up karate if you are only going to put in the same effort as you might for croquet

I see people who use steroids and and people who wont push them selves in rather the same light. That is to lazy to actual work at it and making excuses. Surely the founding principals are dedication and discipline

 

[jobo]

Wow. I would have thought that that they the exercise would have to be done be less than 2 minutes. Does the 2 minutes take into consideration the person being tired from previous exercises that were done? Are all of the exercises done on the same day?

one straight after another I believe

 

[JowGaWolf]

But rather perplexed at marshal artists who are not trying to achieve their potential and strive for excellence.

There is no standard for excellence, in some school it's the color of the belt, in other schools it's how well someone performs a form. Not every school is going to be the same. For example: In this video we already completed 90 push ups (that's a light day for us) by the time the conditioning was over we completed 180 push up. A normal day is 240 push up plus all that other stuff. These are our standards and it doesn't impress everyone. But it works for us and it produces what we need for self-defense. Other people may laugh at it (especially because of the music), but as simple as it looks it's quality training. But it's quality training for our standards. At some other school, this wouldn't pass as training because their standards are different. It doesn't mean that the training at our school is useless. It just means that it's not the same standard.

When it comes to martial arts the standards are going to be set based on what the instructor thinks the students need.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

trying to achieve their potential and strive for excellence.

The best body condition is very important for "sport" MA. For my last tournament, I spent 3 months moving huge rock from place A to place B and then back. During that tournament, I knew I was the strongest person in the whole tournament hall. After that tournament, I started to train triathlon.

 

[jobo]

There is no standard for excellence, in some school it's the color of the belt, in other schools it's how well someone performs a form. Not every school is going to be the same. For example: In this video we already completed 90 push ups (that's a light day for us) by the time the conditioning was over we completed 180 push up. A normal day is 240 push up plus all that other stuff. These are our standards and it doesn't impress everyone. But it works for us and it produces what we need for self-defense. Other people may laugh at it (especially because of the music), but as simple as it looks it's quality training. But it's quality training for our standards. At some other school, this wouldn't pass as training because their standards are different. It doesn't mean that the training at our school is useless. It just means that it's not the same standard.

When it comes to martial arts the standards are going to be set based on what the instructor thinks the students need.

its impressed me
but that's a good fitness routeen, I cant see anyone there who isn't trying to improve. Or is likely to say fitness doesn't matter coz I'm supper good The vid makes the point I made about how important cardio is. It definitely excellent in the pursuit. Of excellence.
nb id make you star guy do more explosive push ups, he will come on a lot faster

 

[jobo]

The best body condition is very important for "sport" MA. For my last tournament, I spent 3 months moving huge rock from place A to place B and then back. During that tournament, I knew I was the strongest person in the whole tournament hall.

thank god, I thought I was a voice in the wildness here. It's just as important for street ma, perhaps more so as there are no weight divisions. Knowing your the strongest guy in the room gives you a different perspective

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Knowing your the strongest guy in the room gives you a different perspective

One 250 lb Iran wrestler challenged me "arm wrestling" in the public. When there is no MA skill involved, strength will decide your winning or losing. I was told that guy later on went to challenge Royce Gracie.

 

[jobo]

The best body condition is very important for "sport" MA. For my last tournament, I spent 3 months moving huge rock from place A to place B and then back. During that tournament, I knew I was the strongest person in the whole tournament hall. After that tournament, I started to train triathlon.

so here is a question for the kungfu boys and girls

when I did kungfu in the late 80s. The training was brutal , and I was supperdupper fit. I thought all ma were like that. Roll on 30 years and i visit the local karate schools and find the training is soft, the people are not very fit and I conclude all ma are like that. Is it the passage of time and people are less dedicated now or is it just that kungfuers, take physical conditioning more seriously?

 

[jobo]

One 250 lb Iran wrestler challenged me "arm wrestling" in the public. When there is no MA skill involved, strength will decide your winning or losing.

there is a lot of techneque in arm wrestling

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

so here is a question for the kungfu boys and girls

when I did kungfu in the late 80s. The training was brutal , and I was supperdupper fit. I thought all ma were like that. Roll on 30 years and i visit the local karate schools and find the training is soft, the people are not very fit and I conclude all ma are like that. Is it the passage of time and people are less dedicated now or is it just that kungfuers, take physical conditioning more seriously?

May be people just get older.

Back in the 70, if you open a MA school and you can't kick like Bruce Lee did, you won't have any students. I still remember I had spent a lot of time to train that Bruce Lee's famous 3 kicks combination - hook kick, inside crescent kick, spinning back kick. Back then, to be able to do a perfect floor split both forward and side way were just considered as "basic".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

there is a lot of techneque in arm wrestling

It's called "body unification". The power comes from the body and not from the arm.

 

[jobo]

May be people just get older.

Back in the 70, if you open a MA school and you can't kick like Bruce Lee did, you won't have any students. I still remember I had spent a lot of time to train that Bruce Lee's famous 3 kicks combination - hook kick, inside crescent kick, spinning back kick. Back then, to be able to do a perfect floor split both forward and side way were just considered as "basic".

yes but there young people compared to me. It's seem that people want the skills but don't seem bothered about having the physical abilities to make them work.

I can just knock the black belts over in 5 secs of sparring. They have all the skills but no ability

 

[Xue Sheng]

the standards are different because one is the actual average of a population which is noted for being overweight having a bad diet and unfit, and the other is an average for fit active people who train , as maers should be defintion be fit active people who train,they should measure themselves to a higher standard than 250 lb wobberlers.

You seem to be determined to take the lowest standard as it makes you feel better about yourself rather than set yourself higher but achievable expectations'. That's rather the modern way.
you diet point is bogus, its hard bordering on the impossible to reach a high standard of fitness unless your diet is healthy,

I'm not trying to impose my standards, I'm not honestly that worried if you under achieved. But rather perplexed at marshal artists who are not trying to achieve their potential and strive for excellence. I see the same with my dojo, people remark how strong I am, like its some sort of gift rather than plain dedication that they could achieve. But I know im not strong, I'm just a lot stronger than they are. When I can do 15 pulls ups with a 20 kg weight I l think I'm strong, that is apparently one of the tests for the Russian special services, but quite away to go yet,
Why take up karate if you are only going to put in the same effort as you might for croquet

I see people who use steroids and and people who wont push them selves in rather the same light. That is to lazy to actual work at it and making excuses. Surely the founding principals are dedication and discipline

Are you sure your not imposing your standard because you are awfully judgmental, condescending and insulting based on that arbitrary standard of yours. You also make some rather unfounded and grandiose assumption about a person if they do not agree with you.

You seem to want to make this personal but I am not making any standards for myself nor am I talking about myself as to what I can or cannot do, I am simply talking reality that is all. I have also quoted military standards that do not agree with what you are talking about, and so has tez by the way, but you seem to choose to ignore those since they are likely harder to get around. You then go for the civilian standard, which I only supplied because you seemed to think ti did not exist or were not differ so I posted them for you.

As to the diet, there are many who look like they are in top shape on horrible diets, sorry , but that is a fact, call it bogus if you like but frankly I simply believe you are denial about it and or know very little about proper diet

I said last time that it really did not make much sense to discuss this further with you since we will not agree you have your arbitrary standard which you apply to yourself and judge others by while I will stick science and with the facts

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

have all the skills but no ability

To develop skill is easy. To develop ability is hard. A technique won't work sometime is not because there is anything wrong with that technique, but there is no ability to support behind it.

 

[jobo]

Are you sure your not imposing your standard because you are awfully judgmental, condescending and insulting based on that arbitrary standard of yours. You also make some rather unfounded and grandiose assumption about a person if they do not agree with you.

You seem to want to make this personal but I am not making any standards for myself nor am I talking about myself as to what I can or cannot do, I am simply talking reality that is all. I have also quoted military standards that do not agree with what you are talking about, and so has tez by the way, but you seem to choose to ignore those since they are likely harder to get around. You then go for the civilian standard, which I only supplied because you seemed to think ti did not exist or was not differ so I posted them for you.

As to the diet, there are many who look like they are in top shape on horrible diets, sorry , but that is a fact, call it bogus if you like but frankly I simply believe you are denial about it and or know very little about proper diet

I said last time that it really did not make much sense to discuss this further with you since we will not agree you have your arbitrary standard which you apply to yourself and judge others by while I will stick science and with the facts

its a sport, sport is elitist, it favours the good over the mundane, it favours the dedicated over the u committed. That isn't judgemental its a simple fact. I want to be the best i can be, I set my standards off those of fit people. You want to use civi average's and are thus comparing yourself with donut eating monsters who can hardly walk. If your happy with that crack on