Shoes - Weapons or hindrances?

[Buka]

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The more the big toe is pulled back toward your body the more heel that hits first. The heel is in line with the leg which transfers the shock of the hit back through the hip which breaks many ribs.

This is me of course in another life time era.........

I'm picturing you, dude, the hair and the sidekick with a pair of Wing Tips on...

That's just awesome!

 

[Danny T]

Not wanting to get into a huge debate about the differences in side kicks I'll state that in the wing chun training I have had the wang gerk or side kick has several variations and is performed with the heel, the blade of the foot, the arch, or the ball of the foot all depending upon the target and what one is performing the kick for. Seldom is the kick above the opponent's hip though it can be. For instance look a my profile picture and you will see a variation of the side kick we use where I am presenting the arch of my foot on the mook jong.

The differences are based upon what target is being attacked, what range is the target, and what is the result I want from the kick.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I have had the wang gerk

Is that a euphemism?

 

[elder999]

I didn't get it twisted at all. You'd better look at Shingo Ohgami if you think it is. In his book 'Introduction to Karate', which has all the Wado techniques in it specifically says 'Sokuto Yokogeri ( soku=foot, to= knife, geri=side, because the side of the foot (Sokuto) is used as a weapon and the kick is performed sideward. Lift your knee as in Maegeri and then stretch your leg, opening your groin to the side. It is necessary to be flexible especially in the groin to be able to perform this kick well"
It then continues with a series of photos showing exactly what it means and it is that which we train. We train with the foot more sidewards on than in your photograph. It's just what we do. If you think it wrong you had better take it up with the author plus all our instructors.

Still hung up in specificity, Tez.

"Wado" is not all karate, and karate isn't even the beginning or end for the side kick. Just because, for whatever reasons, Wado's creator chose to keep only the foot-blade side kick, doesn't mean that it's all there is......just, apparently, that it's all there is for you....

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm picturing you, dude, the hair and the sidekick with a pair of Wing Tips on...

That's just awesome!

And a leisure suit with the shirt open to the navel with 128lbs of gold chains.

 

[Tez3]

Still hung up in specificity, Tez.

"Wado" is not all karate, and karate isn't even the beginning or end for the side kick. Just because, for whatever reasons, Wado's creator chose to keep only the foot-blade side kick, doesn't mean that it's all there is......just, apparently, that it's all there is for you....

All along I have said that is the way we in Wado do it, not that it's the way it's done in ALL karate or all styles, I said I haven't seen it done any other way ( which I haven't), I did NOT say that's the only way to do it. of course it's specific, that's why I keep saying that's how we do in in Wado, I don't say that's how we do it in all striking arts. It's also the way we do it in the TSD we do but that's only two arts. I'm not a dilettante going around trying all arts and pontificating on them, I am style specific and if you read my posts I say so. So really you are being a tad obvious here.

 

[geezer]

All along I have said that is the way we in Wado do it, not that it's the way it's done in ALL karate or all styles, I said I haven't seen it done any other way...

Tez! The great thing about these forums is that even seasoned Martial Artists get exposed to new things. Here's a Wing Chun stomping side-kick striking with the heel or sole of the foot. Since it's normally applied to low targets like knees, shins and even ankles, the stomping action like that used in breaking kindling, makes sense. Watch the clip below from about 1:00 to 1:40. (the freeze-frame immediately visible below is not a WC side kick but a "slant-thrust kick" ...something different).

[/QUOTE]

 

[Tez3]

"Tez! The great thing about these forums is that even seasoned Martial Artists get exposed to new things."

Geezer, that was really my point, I was saying I hadn't seen it before which means I'm sayingI don't know anything about it because I hadn't seen it before so can't comment on the heel/arch of foot argument! I never imagine that what I've seen and know is all there is to see and know, I was merely trying to explain how I've been taught, what we do in our style and how it works. The way we do it means that the side of the foot not the heel hits your opponent , I would think with a bit of twisting so that the sole of the foot isn't facing the ground you can hit with the heel though I can't imagine wanting to hit with the arch of your foot. I also can't imagine messing around with a kick that is painful to do, much better not to do it.
However making your own kicks up and doing them in a haphazard way is really not to be recommended, you end up kicking with the wrong part of your foot which obviously hurts. Pick a known type of kick and get an instructor to teach you how to do it.

 

[Touch Of Death]

"Tez! The great thing about these forums is that even seasoned Martial Artists get exposed to new things."

Geezer, that was really my point, I was saying I hadn't seen it before which means I'm sayingI don't know anything about it because I hadn't seen it before so can't comment on the heel/arch of foot argument! I never imagine that what I've seen and know is all there is to see and know, I was merely trying to explain how I've been taught, what we do in our style and how it works. The way we do it means that the side of the foot not the heel hits your opponent , I would think with a bit of twisting so that the sole of the foot isn't facing the ground you can hit with the heel though I can't imagine wanting to hit with the arch of your foot. I also can't imagine messing around with a kick that is painful to do, much better not to do it.
However making your own kicks up and doing them in a haphazard way is really not to be recommended, you end up kicking with the wrong part of your foot which obviously hurts. Pick a known type of kick and get an instructor to teach you how to do it.

So, your system doesn't have any techs where you cover passed them and stomp to the side en-passant? Interesting. That is one of our beginning tech sequences.

 

[elder999]

All along I have said that is the way we in Wado do it, not that it's the way it's done in ALL karate or all styles, I said I haven't seen it done any other way ( which I haven't), I did NOT say that's the only way to do it. of course it's specific, that's why I keep saying that's how we do in in Wado, I don't say that's how we do it in all striking arts. It's also the way we do it in the TSD we do but that's only two arts. I'm not a dilettante going around trying all arts and pontificating on them, I am style specific and if you read my posts I say so. So really you are being a tad obvious here.

That may be what you meant, Irene, but it's not what you said:

Side kicks are kicks done with the side of the foot, ie the blade or the bit that runs from the little toe to the ankle. The foot is angled to strike with that part of the foot with the sole of the foot facing down. I don't know of any other type of side kick. I've already given you the Japanese name for it so look it up.

No worries though-now you know. Try the heel-not that big an adjustment, and works nicely......

 

[Tez3]

That may be what you meant, Irene, but it's not what you said:

No, that was a specific answer to a specific person who wanted a specific answer. It was not a catch all answer to the OP.

I don't do side kicks anymore, prefer something I can do easily and without having to think about it that doesn't cost me pain.

 

[Tez3]

So, your system doesn't have any techs where you cover passed them and stomp to the side en-passant? Interesting. That is one of our beginning tech sequences.

We have Fumikomi, a stamping kick which can be done as Yoko Fumikomi (sideward)

 

[seasoned]

I'm picturing you, dude, the hair and the sidekick with a pair of Wing Tips on...

That's just awesome!

And a leisure suit with the shirt open to the navel with 128lbs of gold chains.

Guys you're killing me, I laughed so hard I think I got a hernia.......

 

[Buka]

Guys you're killing me, I laughed so hard I think I got a hernia.......

Let's not forget something, that is one sweet *** sidekick. Just saying.

 

[MJS]

I've been mulling this one over for years, and I still can't decide.
Obviously, it depends on the type of shoe. Anyway, here are my thoughts.

Shoes slow down your kicks. No two ways about it. All kicks become slower, and aside from simply having less impact or missing entirely, it increases the chance that your kick can be caught.

However, they do let you throw kicks in ways that wouldn't be effective without shoes, or would at least be very dangerous to the kicker. They can add a little length to your toe and heel (which is both a pro and a con, depending on the kick thrown), but the material your shoe is made of isn't as hard as your actual heel. But both your heel and toes will be protected from harder materials.
Obviously, shoes are armor. You can kick hard materials harder without it hurting your foot, as well as be able to traverse otherwise problematic terrain. If someone tries to attack your foot during a kick, your foot is pretty well protected.

Also obviously, you're going to be wearing shoes all the time. It's smart to be good at kicking while wearing shoes. They have their pro's and con's for it though. If I knew beforehand that I had to fight someone and the terrain would be relatively clean, I would prefer being barefoot. I'm not going to have that option though.

How do you feel about kicking wearing shoes? Are there certain design features that you look for in your shoe? I try to find a narrow one that doesn't do too much foot arch correcting. The arch takes the power out of a sidekick, and I feel that it lessens the springiness of my feet.

In some schools that I trained at, I wore wrestling shoes. My current dojo, is very traditional, so no shoes allowed. However, I do enjoy training in every day clothing. Usually a big difference between kicking in a gi while barefoot, and wearing jeans and sneakers. Considering that everyone wears shoes, I think it'd be a very good idea to get used to functioning in them.

 

[Tez3]

However, I do enjoy training in every day clothing.

I do but don't very often as training in sussies and stockings is uncomfortable. Non Brits can look that up as I'm not explaining ROFLMAO.

 

[Orange Lightning]

In some schools that I trained at, I wore wrestling shoes. My current dojo, is very traditional, so no shoes allowed. However, I do enjoy training in every day clothing. Usually a big difference between kicking in a gi while barefoot, and wearing jeans and sneakers. Considering that everyone wears shoes, I think it'd be a very good idea to get used to functioning in them.

Big difference indeed. I used to avoid wearing shoes during training if I could because it felt like it made everything a little clumsier. In retrospect, I think it's easier to learn how to kick with no shoes. Just because there isn't any weight on your foot, so you can control it better.
On the other hand of that, having a shoes makes it easier kick with less worry about hurting my foot somehow. Explicitly for training though. I'm obviously going to be wearing shoes if there was ever an actual altercation. I'm quicker and happier barefoot though.

 

[K-man]

I do but don't very often as training in sussies and stockings is uncomfortable. Non Brits can look that up as I'm not explaining ROFLMAO.

OMG! My imagination is in overdrive, high heels and crop too, I should think. A new angle on weapon training!

 

[Orange Lightning]

Big difference indeed. I used to avoid wearing shoes during training if I could because it felt like it made everything a little clumsier. In retrospect, I think it's easier to learn how to kick with no shoes. Just because there isn't any weight on your foot, so you can control it better.
On the other hand of that, having a shoes makes it easier kick with less worry about hurting my foot somehow. Explicitly for training though. I'm obviously going to be wearing shoes if there was ever an actual altercation. I'm quicker and happier barefoot though.

Spring is finally starting to take full stride where I live. Today was the first day I was able to do any serious kicking barefoot outside. I've been kicking forcefully with shoes almost exclusively for the past half year or so. Outside of the kicking thing, it felt awesome. I was in a great mood for the whole day. It's not just me either. Apparently, there is real science to it, and it's called grounding. It has to do with electrons from the earth going in your feet.

Why Does Walking Barefoot on the Earth Make You Feel Better Your Olive Branch News - yobo

Just google barefoot static for more links on that.

It's possible that I just forgot how good it felt to kick barefoot. If that isn't the case, I must say that wearing shoes all that time has drastically increased my kicking speed and power while barefoot. Footwork is faster too. My shoes slightly pad almost all of my kicks except my hook kick, but it does need more space do generate momentum in due to a long heel.
Because it doesn't really alter the shape of the impact surface of my foot, I think I can kick better with some tough slippers than shoes. Very little arch correction and next to no soft material between my hard heel and my target. It's a reliable enough slipper that it can be worn out and about seriously. Without thinking, "if only I had shoes." Plus, they are more socially exceptable and generally handy than those awesome shoes that look like feet.

I wonder if there are sandals that would be any good for kicking? I doubt it, but I wonder.

Here's a shoe that lacks most of the qualities that deflate kicks. Very little material between the foot and ground, small heel, and doesn't change the shape of the foot much. Very little arch correction too. "Taekwondo" shoes, apparently.

Amazon.com adidas Taekwondo Adilux Shoes Shoes

Soccer shoes seem alright too. The spikes instead of just the flat surface would make the surface area of impact smaller,which is definitely better than just flat padding. I would have to hope their hard enough though.

 

[K-man]

Apparently, there is real science to it, and it's called grounding. It has to do with electrons from the earth going in your feet.

Why Does Walking Barefoot on the Earth Make You Feel Better Your Olive Branch News - yobo

Just google barefoot static for more links on that.

You'll forgive me if I call BS on this one. If there is real science to it perhaps you could reference the real science instead of a blog.