Shoes - Weapons or hindrances?

[Orange Lightning]

....Almost everyone missed the point.
Obviously, like Danny just said, you should train with whatever you're most likely to be kicking with.
I was exclusively trying to get everyone's point of view on how their shoes could help or hinder the damaging ability of their kicking. And, if anyone chose specific qualiities in their shoes to enhance their fighting ability, whether it was for footworking or kicking.

Post 16 by Tez3, after Elder's post, has pretty much ruined my day.

Post 16 made my day. xD XD xD

 

[Dirty Dog]

Every day, in the middle of the night when someone breaks into your house you might not have time to put your shoes on. At the beach, at the pool etc.

I'm not worried about shoes (or pants) at home in the middle of the night. I'm also far more likely to shoot an intruder than kick them.

 

[Orange Lightning]

Unless you are wearing high heels or steel cap boots the amount of speed you lose on your kicks will be negligible.

It really depends on the shoe, and the kick. Most of my low kicks are barely affected. My mid and high level round and hook kicks are quite a bit slower. Spinning hooks are even slower. Not too slow, but it's noticeable. It's a lot worse if I don't get any momentum from taking my foot off the ground and only use muscular force. I would agree though, that it's negligible for plenty of kicks.
And the shoe - I've worn plenty of shoes that were too wide and large, and slowed down my kicks slightly more than my current ones. And without advantage of any kind. Some of them even padded my round kicks. They were good enough armor though.

My current shoes also have long heels, so they change the range I can hit with maximum force with an axe or hook kick.

 

[Orange Lightning]

My feet are always better protected and better weapons when wearing shoes....they are much better weapons wearing sturdy leather shoes, maybe not so much better in sneakers, and maybe not at all in sandals....of course, when you have deformed size 15s like mine, you rarely wear sandals....much less bedroom slippers.

High-heels, of course, are another story-though I never have occasion to wear them...

That said, we should learn to deliver kicks shod with each type of footwear that we have occasion to wear-it[s usually a little different than kicking barefoot.....and I'm not talking about speed, which I've found to be a rather insignificant difference, when it comes to self-defense...

Sounds like I need to get different shoes. My shoes definitely change my kicking dynamic. What kind of shoe do you wear?

 

[Tez3]

I wear whatever shoes go with what I'm wearing or whatever I feel like wearing. If my feet are happy then the rest of me is, I will if necessary kick with whatever I'm wearing, the thought of buying shoes just so I can kick in them makes me shudder. If I can't kick because of the shoes I'm wearing I have plenty of other options, I don't kick high and I use the bottom of my shin to kick anyway so shoes for kicking doesn't concern me at all. Shoes because they are shoes, is a whole new subject.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So.... you didn't answer my question...
What system teaches using the arch of the foot for a sidekick?

 

[Orange Lightning]

So.... you didn't answer my question...
What system teaches using the arch of the foot for a sidekick?

You know the answer to that question.

I understand that it's taught to do sidekicks with the blade of the foot. I don't like doing that. I feel like it's easy to hurt myself if my timing is wrong. I prefer to hit with my heel, but I land plenty with my arch just because my timing was off. I feel that it has more stopping power too.
Besides, I have foot problems as it is. I don't need to take my chances putting so much force on those bones. If I'm wearing shoes.... well, that might be different, now that I think about it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So basically, you're kicking wrong, and then blaming the shoe.
The shoe isn't the problem. The incorrect kick is.

 

[tshadowchaser]

What kind of shoe do you wear?

as I said earlier in this thread I wear steel toed and if possible steel heeled shoes and boots.
Yes the do damage to people when used and yes if I ever go to court in this country I'll most likely be in trouble for using them as a weapon. Yes they have set people to the emergency room in the past. If I have to wear shoes I prefer that they not only look nice but afford me some protection also

 

[Orange Lightning]

.

 

[Orange Lightning]

So basically, you're kicking wrong, and then blaming the shoe.
The shoe isn't the problem. The incorrect kick is.

You misinterpreted my post.

The shoe has nothing to do with the form of my side kick.They dampen some kicks, some more than others. In my case, wearing shoes armors the part of my specific body's bones that are prone to injury, and with the possibility of impact injury being less while wearing shoes, I can consider using the blade of my foot when I'm wearing shoes.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Bottom line is that you're kicking incorrectly. A shoe won't fix that. Training will.

 

[Orange Lightning]

So basically, you're kicking wrong, and then blaming the shoe.
The shoe isn't the problem. The incorrect kick is.

I am not kicking "wrong", or blaming the shoe for this supposed "wrong"ness. I am kicking with a different surface of my foot, which changes how the force transfers from my foot to my target. .
Most of the time, I kick barefoot. The blade of my foot is hardly an option for me while barefoot, but it could be when I'm wearing shoes.
Bottom line is that kicking with the blade of my foot could literally make me limp for days. A shoe can fix that, because it armors the part of the foot that would prevent me from kicking "correctly".

 

[Dirty Dog]

I am not kicking "wrong", or blaming the shoe for this supposed "wrong"ness. I am kicking with a different surface of my foot, which changes how the force transfers from my foot to my target. .
Most of the time, I kick barefoot. The blade of my foot is hardly an option for me while barefoot, but it could be when I'm wearing shoes.
Bottom line is that kicking with the blade of my foot could literally make me limp for days. A shoe can fix that, because it armors the part of the foot that would prevent me from kicking "correctly".

You've stated that you're using the arch of the foot for a sidekick. That is, actually, kicking wrong.

 

[elder999]

That's an image... Now, any mental bleach to get it out of my mind?.

Forgot the LMAO smiley, sorry.

In all seriousness, I've posted elsehwere about working security with a friend who was a drag-queen, and watching him kick three guy's asses while wearing a mini-skirt and high-heels.....don't have any personal experience wearing or kicking in them, myself...pretty sure they don't come in men's size 15, anyway

, but I've had a little experience helping women figure out how to move in them (short answer: get them off as soon as possible...about the only shoe I'd say this for)......when people are getting ready for brown belt, we put together a "street-clothes" kit for them, for street-clothes workouts, and it usually includes high-heels for the women, unless they claim to NEVER wear them.....for men it includes sneakers, workboots, and inexpensive dress-shoes...in some cases, like the sneaker, they are neither weapon nor hindrance-though you do have to work on orienting your foot properly, as they are a little different than barefoot. A good pair of Redwings, though, make a helluva missile out of each foot, and don't slow my kicks enough to make any difference, especially at self-defense height....

 

[Tez3]

Sidekicks are definitely not 'my' kick, I've never been able to get great height or power into them in many years so quite simply I don't do them. I don't need them for grading and I manage fine without them so rather than do them incorrectly or hesitate about doing them, hesitation often being fatal, I simply don't do them. Done well they are a brilliant kick, I don't do them well so it's a so so kick. I imagine others have various techniques that they don't use so it's not a tragedy if you don't do something and concentrate on things you do well so rather than worry about what shoes to wear, don't do sidekicks. Simples.

 

[elder999]

From a mechanical standpoint, if you land a kick with the arch, you're doing it wrong,

Since the first way I learned to sidekick was with the heel making contact, I have to say that, from a mechanical standpoint, if you make contact with the arch you're doing it wrong. Like you, I prefer to deliver sidekicks with the heel-barefoot or shod- unlike you, I've never landed one with my nearly non-existent arches, and I am, as I've always said, a congenital klutz, and only okay with kicking.....okay, I kick like a mule, and pretty high if I want to, but not.....pretty,

 

[Orange Lightning]

You've stated that you're using the arch of the foot for a sidekick. That is, actually, kicking wrong.

Ok. Fine. For the sake of argument, I can give you that kicking with the arch is inferior to kicking with the blade for creating impact, and would be the wrong choice to achieve that goal.
It doesn't matter for me though, if it's wrong or right. If I kick something with the blade of my foot, I will hurt the bones in my foot. Maybe it's the way the bones in my foot are aligned or the bones in my foot are unusually fragile. I don't rightly know.

If I kick something, barefoot, with the blade of my foot, I have a high chance of hurting it. There is no debating that point. It is the way it is. If that gimps my sidekicks, well... I'll just have to live with that. If I have to kick "wrong", to avoid that, I will.

 

[Tez3]

Ok. Fine. For the sake of argument, I can give you that kicking with the arch is inferior to kicking with the blade for creating impact, and would be the wrong choice to achieve that goal.
It doesn't matter for me though, if it's wrong or right. If I kick something with the blade of my foot, I will hurt the bones in my foot. Maybe it's the way the bones in my foot are aligned or the bones in my foot are unusually fragile. I don't rightly know.

If I kick something, barefoot, with the blade of my foot, I have a high chance of hurting it. There is no debating that point. It is the way it is. If that gimps my sidekicks, well... I'll just have to live with that. If I have to kick "wrong", to avoid that, I will.

So, why are you doing sidekicks? If it hurts, don't do it. If you can't or are unable to do it properly, don't do it. It goes against common sense.

 

[Orange Lightning]

So, why are you doing sidekicks? If it hurts, don't do it. If you can't or are unable to do it properly, don't do it. It goes against common sense.

I can land with my heel just fine. Sometimes I land with my arch, but usually with my heel. I think it works pretty well landing with the heel. I don't think it lacks effectiveness this way at all. I just don't use the blade of my foot.