Shito-ry

[reeskm]

Very interesting. I have never heard these two gentlemen were related (and Korea is notorious for having a paucity of surnames so it can be hard to be sure who exactly is related to whom). Do you have a source for this information about them being related?

I will try and find the source. I am currently trying to sort out what is right and what is wrong. Information is sketchy at this point. Any correction is welcome!

Jhoon Rhee was actually a member of the Chung Do Kwan before founding his own style of Taekwon-Do. He may well still be considered a member of the Chung Do Kwan, despite this, and was promoted to 10th dan in Chung Do Kwan by Lee, Won Kuk (Chung Do Kwan founder) in 1998.

Yes, I stand corrected. I have found another source to verify this:
Taekwondo Forum ? View topic - Chung Do Kwan & Won Kuk Lee by Kyo Yoon Lee
See "Graduates of the Chung Do Kwan were" #17 - Jhoon Rhee

Thanks for your help so far Chris.

 

[Ray B]

While Shito-ryu officially has 40+ kata in their syllabus, most practitioners practice much less.
Most often they are taught the Itosu katas up through Shodan, then other katas are taught to
supplement. How they are determined I don't really know. Shito-ryu is primarily considered
Okinawan while Shotokan is thought of as Japanese.

 

[jorgemp]

Original shotokan was similar to shito ryu. Gichin Funakoshi, the founder, didn´t use the actual strong and long stances and high explosive kicks.

He also used open hand strikes (similar to kung fu techniques). Actual emphasis on fist strikes is modern.

Original shotokan was similar to shito ryu.

 

[PhotonGuy]

So my Grandmaster from Taekwondo class tonight mentioned that he took a Shito Ryu during his time in Tokyo. I was wondering what is different shito Ryu between Shotokan Karate?

Shito Ryu is the main style I train in. As far as the differences are concerned I can tell you this. Shotokan was founded by Funakoshi and Shito was founded by Mabuni. The two men were friends and the styles are quite similar except Shito Ryu tends to be smoother. For instance, in the step over reverse punch, where you take a step forward and throw a punch, in Shito Ryu you take a tiny step with your front foot before stepping over with your rear foot. In Shotokan you don't take take that tiny step with the front foot before stepping over. So that is basically how the styles differ, Shito Ryu tends to be smoother and some of their techniques are a little more complicated, but aside from that the styles are very similar.

 

[Blade~]

When I studied Kyokushin one of they guys in class was also taking Shito-ryu the same time. He showed us a couple of beginner Katas and what I could see it had more technical variety such as using elbows frequently. You don't see much of that in other traditional Karate styles.

 

[reeskm]

I look up on website. He did trained under Dr. Kye Byoung Yoon. He then studied one year in Japan and graduated in 1967. While in Japan, he trained at the Yo-Yo-Ki Karate School in Tokyo for one year. Now, I have interesting in what you have to say. : )

Michael89,
would you be so kind to post the website link you mention?

Yo-Yo-Ki is most definitely Yoyogi in current English romanization. Do you know what is the name of this Yoyogi dojo?
There are probably more than one, but this one in the 1960's is quite famous:
Yoyogi dMjM
[Yoyogi Shurenkai Karate Dōjō]

 

[reeskm]

When I studied Kyokushin one of they guys in class was also taking Shito-ryu the same time. He showed us a couple of beginner Katas and what I could see it had more technical variety such as using elbows frequently. You don't see much of that in other traditional Karate styles.

I do what I consider "traditional" Korean Karate - Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do.
Unlike the current Soo Bahk Do MDK organization, my teacher was a staunch traditionalist. Although the newer "soft" techniques of SBD are still present, it's still a hard art for the most part.

Punches are most definitely emphasized for beginner and intermediate gup (kyu) ranks from 10 white to 4 green-belt in our system.

After that the door blows wide open. We start teaching spear hand, knife hand, elbows of all kinds, knees, basic sweeps throws and joint locks. Dan levels start learning and applying bone breaks (like in the recent Black Belt mag C.S. Kim cover feature and videos on their website), chicken wrist, one and two finger eye gouges, and one knuckle punches. I've probably forgotten something, but that's off the top of my head.

One curious thing I've never been able to figure out:
Some say Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do has it's origins in the Shotokan style. However, our chun-bee (ready position/stance) has our hands in fists and curled in a moon shape and one knife hand apart, and the only Japanese Karate style I can find that does this in a similar way is Shito-ryu. I've never been able to figure this one out... Did Shotokan change their ready stance in the 1950s? (do you call it "yame" or "yoi"?)
Did Shitoryu change it?

 

[MAist25]

Some say Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do has it's origins in the Shotokan style. However, our chun-bee (ready position/stance) has our hands in fists and curled in a moon shape and one knife hand apart, and the only Japanese Karate style I can find that does this in a similar way is Shito-ryu.

Do you have a picture or a reference so we can see what your ready stance actually looks like?

 

[reeskm]

This pic represents a variation, which is good for reference.

The gentleman in the middle displays the best form of MDK TSD choon-bee chase ready stance, although straight wrists and slightly wider apart arms are common but slightly incorrect.
http://www.brewflightventures.com/_photos/gallery1/images/pic_4.jpg

 

[Michael89]

Well, I feel very educated on Shito-Ryu now. This been very interesting for me to read.

 

[TSDTexan]

Shito Ryu has a lot of kata. They definitely prefer breadth over depth.

http://www.shito-ryu.eu/shito-ryu-kata-list/

With over 49 kata, I think this is the system with the most. I can't think of a karate system that practices more. That said, I think you can see what is emphasized. If you like to learn and practice the solo kata, this system is for you.

There are like active 120 kata in our tradition.
We have an insane amount of the Okinawan Kata (Tomarite, Nahate, Shurite) from Kanken Toyama O'Sensei,
Then We have some of the Taolu forms that He taught from his three systems of Chinese quán fǎ that are preserved,

Then we have the 7 Kokyu kata that Kanken Toyama
created.

then the Okinawan Kobudo forms,

and then the forms that former 10° Hanshi Ichikawa Isao created, and a few that his brother Current 10° Hanshi Ichikawa Nobuo has created.

Needless to say, no students of Hanshi that I know have all the Kata.

My Shihan that I train under only knows 80 or so.

And then there are many that have been dropped altogether, do to redundancy... the kata only teaches stuff that is found in other Kata.

 

[PhotonGuy]

So my Grandmaster from Taekwondo class tonight mentioned that he took a Shito Ryu during his time in Tokyo. I was wondering what is different shito Ryu between Shotokan Karate?

They're quite similar although Shito-Ryu is smoother. For instance, one of the basic techniques in Shotokan is a step over reverse punch from the front stance where you take a step forward with your rear foot so it becomes your front foot while at the same time throwing a reverse punch with the hand that's on the same side as the foot stepping forward. Shito-Ryu has that same technique with an added step. Before you step over with your rear foot you take a small step with your front foot. So that is one example of how the Shito-Ryu style is smoother.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Great question, although I don't know the answer.

Unfortunately our profanity filter occasionally trips over the name of that particular style. style, which is why you see the asterisks. I just put in a message to the mods, we'll see if we can fix it so Shito-ryu is displayed properly

Well although the name of the style is spelt the same way it is not pronounced the same way as the vulgar term.