Sharing my training - Conditioning

[JowGaWolf]

i did Jow Ga for three to 4 years and at no point did anyone do that or anything like it, yet no one was short of punching power, i know coz they hit me quite often

Your years in Jow Ga isn't relevant to the training that I do.

• We don't train at the same schools.
• You don't train the way I do.
  
• I have never seen you do Jow Ga. From my point of view there's no data as to what you can or can't do with Jow Ga. Not one clip of you doing the basics or training Jow Ga and based on some of the things you say and have said, I have my doubts about you training Jow Ga. There are just some concepts that you constantly miss and the only you would not understand those concepts is if you trained when you were too young to understand or if you didn't put in the work. To actually learn how to use Jow Ga.

I've seen you mention that you did Jow Ga a few times. Who did you train under?

 

[jobo]

Your years in Jow Ga isn't relevant to the training that I do.

• We don't train at the same schools.
• You don't train the way I do.
  
• I have never seen you do Jow Ga. From my point of view there's no data as to what you can or can't do with Jow Ga. Not one clip of you doing the basics or training Jow Ga and based on some of the things you say and have said, I have my doubts about you training Jow Ga. There are just some concepts that you constantly miss and the only you would not understand those concepts is if you trained when you were too young to understand or if you didn't put in the work. To actually learn how to use Jow Ga.

I've seen you mention that you did Jow Ga a few times. Who did you train under?

il give you the same answer i did last time you asked , some guy called Chris, im not sure if i ever new his second name, maybe something beginning with H, i just called him Chris ,

all i do remember about him is he was very very good and had a really nice car, this was circa 1986, we trained in sport centre in Bolton, classes were 30/40 strong, i went to two two hour classes a week and a three hour class on Sunday, which was mostly free fighting, then i got married in 89 and that was the end of that, i cant remember that much about my marriage either, , but i do remember no funny walks with a broom handle

im not sure why your accusing me of telling lies, ive made quite a few posts over the years about how great Jow Ga was, which it was indeed

 

[JowGaWolf]

im not sure why your accusing me of telling lies, ive made quite a few posts over the years about how great Jow Ga was, which it was indeed

This is the first time I've read anything about where you train. If you commented before on this then I didn't see it or I didn't remember it. I would like to think I would remember something like this so I'm leaning more on the side that I didn't see your post, or I just forgot. I usually don't ask people who they trained under If "Chris" actually could spar with and use Jow Ga then he would tell you the same things that I'm telling you about the waist and the power that is generated from it. The reason I say that is because it's so fundamental to Jow Ga,

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

At 0.03 - 0.06, it's better to do it a bit slower.

In the following clip, what do you think about his weight shifting. When you and I do this, we may do it too fast and not emphasizes enough on the small detail. I like the way that he

- bends his back leg,
- shift weight to the front leg.

It shows how the power should be transferred from the back leg to the leading hand.

 

[JowGaWolf]

At 0.03 - 0.06, it's better to do it a bit slower.

In the following clip, what do you think about his weight shifting. When you and I do this, we may do it too fast and not emphasizes enough on the small detail. I like the way that he

- bends his back leg,
- shift weight to the front leg.

It shows how the power should be transferred from the back leg to the leading hand.

yeah I went slow before. (this is the video I posted before showing the conditioning)

It's not an easy task to move everything at once. Going slower doesn't make it easier lol. In the video you can tell when I get it right and when I don't.

If I go any slower than this then I'll just do Taiji Chuan. But there's no need to go slow with the staff drill. If slow is all that you have then that's fast enough. Keep it up and that speed will increase. I'm not saying that a person can't go slow. I'm just saying that the flow of energy won't flow the same as it would if your hands are free. With the staff it will stop at the waist

I practice all of my forms slow at the beginning so I can take note of weight shifts and body connectivity. I don't have it down perfect yet, but it's closer than it has been in the past.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I go any slower than this then I'll just do Taiji Chuan.

My goal is not to do a move slow. My goal is to do a move fast. But even if I do fast, if I record my move and watch it in slow motion, I want my slow motion video look exactly as if I do my move slow.

Can I achieve 100% coordination between my arm and my leg even in fast motion? I know this is a difficult goal to achieve. But it's a challenge goal for me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Can I achieve 100% coordination between my arm and my leg even in fast motion? I know this is a difficult goal to achieve. But it's a challenge goal for me.

To be honest I'm not sure how many understand the concept of using the full body. I've seen some of your post about it and it doesn't get great reviews on that subject except for those who know what you are talking about. lol. It seems like there are 3 camps in Martial Talk. Japanese Theory, Chinese Theory, and MMA Theory.

Different views about this will very from camp to camp.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To be honest I'm not sure how many understand the concept of using the full body. I've seen some of your post about it and it doesn't get great reviews on that subject except for those who know what you are talking about. lol. It seems like there are 3 camps in Martial Talk. Japanese Theory, Chinese Theory, and MMA Theory.

Different views about this will very from camp to camp.

When I put up a person clip, sometime people criticize on my clip and said that my hand and leg are not 100% coordinated. This remind me that this body coordination training path is endless.

When my

- hand starts to move, does my leg start to move?
- hand stops to move, does my leg stop to move?
- leg starts to move, does my hand start to move?
- leg stops to move, does my hand stop to move?

When I use slow speed on my clip, I can see my coordination is not perfect yet. It's a good self-challenge.

 

[_Simon_]

i didnt mention cardio at all, or suggest that it was the only thing. you dont actually need any fitness above base line to train ma, as is clear from the number of people who train it at little above base line

my point was more that you need a fairly high level of fitness in order to fight someone with a good level of fitness, ONE very important component of that fitness is high intensity over a few minutes, how many mins ? , dont know 2,3,4,5 , ? best to train at the top side, if its only an investment of 10 mins of your time, two or three times a week

im really struggling to understand, the level of your objection to this, it seems a fairly obvious conclusion to reach, it does seem to go against the ethos of some ma, that a high degree of physical condition isnt necessary or even desirable,


it wasnt always such, it seems to have crept in in the last 25 years or so, in the 70s and 80s ma would absolutely hammer you with physical conditioning,, way back then that vid has nothing on the work out my kung fu training demanded..the only thing that seems to have changed is the demographic they tend to attract ?

... keep changing the 'point' you're trying to make to remain looking 'clever' and like you're 'winning'. It's bordering on sophistry...

My level of objection? Again throwing over what you're doing onto me. You're objecting to ANY OTHER form of MA training but the narrow hole that you've put it in.

Another example which I'm sure you'll create your own loophole in.. It's like telling a powerlifter who's doing some sets of skullcrushers and cable rows "oh you need to train your bench more." Powerlifter: "ah yeah I'm just doing ancillary/accessory work for the rhomboids, rear delts, lats, triceps etc to help with stability and recruitment to help bring up the other lifts."
"..... nah do bench cos that's what you'll be doing."

I didn't once object to cardio training nor to high intensity training to get your conditioning up. A very important component for fighting. ALL I said was that there are so many other components to work on in MA. Many of which have great benefit.


I suggest actually listening to those around you, and to @JowGaWolf 's responses here too.

But it seems you're not interested in discussion, or feedback. Turned the blinders on completely..

 

[_Simon_]

To be honest I'm not sure how many understand the concept of using the full body. I've seen some of your post about it and it doesn't get great reviews on that subject except for those who know what you are talking about. lol. It seems like there are 3 camps in Martial Talk. Japanese Theory, Chinese Theory, and MMA Theory.

Different views about this will very from camp to camp.

That's a good point. Some techniques like backfist for example aren't necessarily full body (I'm sure they could be), but I was taught it generally as more of a quick whip to stun rather than fully knock out with the full power of the whole body.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Some techniques like backfist for example aren't necessarily full body (I'm sure they could be), but I was taught it generally as more of a quick whip to stun rather than fully knock out with the full power of the whole body.

The back fist can be done with full body power. In one challenge fight, a guy was knocked out by a full body power back fist.

 

[_Simon_]

The back fist can be done with full body power. In one challenge fight, a guy was knocked out by a full body power back fist.

Oh yeah for sure it can be. But different techniques sometimes have different aims depending on tactic, and I quite like the whippy techniques [emoji14]

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's a good point. Some techniques like backfist for example aren't necessarily full body (I'm sure they could be), but I was taught it generally as more of a quick whip to stun rather than fully knock out with the full power of the whole body.

The downward backfist that I show are full body. When I taught, I used to students to imagine that they are trying to break a collar bone for facial bone. Most people are familiar with the snapping back fist.
Not the best video but it shows the correct angle that's similar to how one would have to hit at to break a collar bone. The fist doesn't snap back.

This is closer to the mechanics that I show in the video. The clavicle is easier to break than that coconut.

I miss teaching this type of backfist. I would give students a taste of weight bearing that comes from it. I would have them hold a pad in front on their chest to either the right or left and I would just bear my weight down on them. The were always surprised at just how much weight can be put into it. I can't remember if I have a video of me teaching that. At this point it makes me wish I would have recorded more of the classes that I taught.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The back fist can be done with full body power. In one challenge fight, a guy was knocked out by a full body power back fist.

Thanks for sharing that one. That also shows what we talk about using the full body and things starting and stopping at the same time. I actually had to watch it few times. The first time I didn't see it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The downward backfist that I show are full body.

When your opponent dodges under your hook punch, you change your hook into back fist can land right on top of his head.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's another one. Similar motion to what is in the training video.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When your opponent dodges under your hook punch, you change your hook into back fist can land right on top of his head.

I used to throw punches at my sparring partner just to the right of his head which makes him easy to slip the punch. Most people I know dodge if it looks like they can. Because they dodge my hand passes by their head. At that point I don't bring my punch back. I leave my hand there, bend my elbow slightly and send a heavy horizontal back fist to the side of the head. By throwing the punch off target I can actually use it to help wind up my back fist. Backfists are good for arm breaks too for those who can pull that off.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just talking about some of this stuff really reminds me of how many simple things there are in kung fu

 

[JowGaWolf]

Oh yeah for sure it can be. But different techniques sometimes have different aims depending on tactic, and I quite like the whippy techniques [emoji14]

The ones that snap are good. If I needed to stun someone really quick I would use the back fist that snaps. Those backfist still hurt. You have to watch this one closely. snapping Backfist sneaks in after kick (the only reason I call it snapping back fist is so I don't get confused) The heavy backfist whips but it doesn't come back.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Just talking about some of this stuff really reminds me off how many simple things there are in kung fu

I don't believe that

- back fist,
- hammer fist,
- side punch,

exist in boxing.

Why?

I used to not believe in "side punch" until one day I saw someone used a side punch to knock his opponent's body 45 degree upward into the air. I could not believe my own eyes. I only saw that happened once in my life.