Where are you at in Ky?
Shaolin-Do Curriculum?
- Thread starter Doomx2001
- Start date
Where are you at in Ky?
OP
OP
Doomx2001
Green Belt
I'm in the southeastern part. I apologize for being so vauge. Can't never be too careful with your personal info on the net'.
OP
OP
Doomx2001
Green Belt
Here is an interesting question/thought: Where do you guys see Shaolin-Do in future (the curriculum, future grandmaster, popularity...etc).
Myself, here is what I think:
Even if Shaolin-Do is based on a lie (which I'm not saying it is or isn't), I think all those that train in it are legit, because they put the 'blood, sweat, tears, and time' into learning it. And nobody can take that away from the practitioners no matter what is found out in the future.
We can already see what is happening with Shaolin-Do. As it has spread westward, Shaolin-Do students/teachers have compared what they were taught with people who study other TCMA (traditional Chinese martial arts). And doing so, they have incorparated what they have learned from other TCMA's into Shaolin-Do making it more legit (assuming that is, that SD is based on a long series of lies).
I think over time in about 30 or 50 years, the Shaolin-Do we see today will look entirely different and become more effective, and more authentic with time. There are a few (probably one or two at least) Shaolin-Do teachers who have actually traveled to China to study Shaolin for a short time, so I imagine they would incorparate what they learned into what they do.
I think, sadly, after Sin Kwan The' dies one day, there will be no grandmaster of the art and it will splinter into rival schools (as it is already happening).
However, as the optimist that I am, I think Shaolin-Do has done more GOOD than harm in that it has offered many people who have no access to martial art training a chance to train (or at least that is how it is many parts of KY). And, as the more disgruntled serious students of SD move on to other TCMA's they carry with them some basic understanding of TCMA.
What do you guys think?
And please add more of your thoughts about the curriculum.
Thanks for all the replys.
Myself, here is what I think:
Even if Shaolin-Do is based on a lie (which I'm not saying it is or isn't), I think all those that train in it are legit, because they put the 'blood, sweat, tears, and time' into learning it. And nobody can take that away from the practitioners no matter what is found out in the future.
We can already see what is happening with Shaolin-Do. As it has spread westward, Shaolin-Do students/teachers have compared what they were taught with people who study other TCMA (traditional Chinese martial arts). And doing so, they have incorparated what they have learned from other TCMA's into Shaolin-Do making it more legit (assuming that is, that SD is based on a long series of lies).
I think over time in about 30 or 50 years, the Shaolin-Do we see today will look entirely different and become more effective, and more authentic with time. There are a few (probably one or two at least) Shaolin-Do teachers who have actually traveled to China to study Shaolin for a short time, so I imagine they would incorparate what they learned into what they do.
I think, sadly, after Sin Kwan The' dies one day, there will be no grandmaster of the art and it will splinter into rival schools (as it is already happening).
However, as the optimist that I am, I think Shaolin-Do has done more GOOD than harm in that it has offered many people who have no access to martial art training a chance to train (or at least that is how it is many parts of KY). And, as the more disgruntled serious students of SD move on to other TCMA's they carry with them some basic understanding of TCMA.
What do you guys think?
And please add more of your thoughts about the curriculum.
Thanks for all the replys.
That's cool... just gonna help you find possibly something a little more single threaded in training.
PM me if you feel like it.
Multiparted to provide carlity of thought & topic
True enough & they can use it as it's taught. However...
Negative. It can't happen with SD because of what SD is. Just the nature of the beast.
Effectiveness is up to the person. As to the China thing... who knows but see above.
Bad juju to talk about the passing of a present teacher. No comment.
Yes & no. Yes that it was instrumental in bringing MA to Ky & surrounding region.
No in the aspect that the marketing machine went wild & the interwebz has kinda caught it. So much of that has stopped. However the stigma is there.
As to students leaving for TCMA as I did & at least for me, there's no disgruntlement. I just found TCMA close to me for a change & jumped. I hold my SD in the highest regard & hope him nothing but the best. One of my best friends is still SD & we enjoy crossing hands like we enjoy drinking beer.
However, the basic understanding of TCMA came AFTER leaving SD. I walked in as an already experienced martial artist, but SD for all it offered, had too many holes & not enough patches.
Dude... what are you going on about the curriculum? IF you have questions, ask. I'll answer as best as I can remember, but it's the SD curriculum & the only way to understand it, is to go through it.
If you're wondering about their kum na, don't. If you've been in the Buj for 7 years, they've got nothing to show you that you shouldn't have seen already & with lots of henka & hands on to go with it.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
And surprisingly there is no record of this at Shaolin where they are known to keep meticulous records.
No one and I repeat no one in CMA learns 900 forms and is taken seriously by any other real live CMA sifu. Sorry it is the way it is in CMA my first sifu now claims to know hundreds among them Wudang and Shaolin and he is far from skilled in them. And I won't tell you what 3 born raised and trained in China sifus say about him.... let’s just say that all call him a Grandmaster... and they are not being complimentary and that is the nicest thing they say about him
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Different systems have a very specific methodology in how they train. This is reflected in how the system is designed and built, and it gets certain types of results, as it is designed for.
Usually you cannot patch things from one system onto another (even tho a lot of people TRY to do so), because their very foundation is different. These things just do not work well when cobbled together that way. And the only way to effectively incorporate elements of one system into another, is to seriously train that system and understand it from the ground up.
Patching some legitimate but poorly understood Hung Gar forms into the Shaolin Do curriculum is not going to make the SD better. It's just going to make the hung gar worse for being patched in and not properly trained.
SD is what it is, and as Sean says, it cannot be changed or improved in that way. It is what it is and will never be other than that.
My own understanding of Chinese methods also came later, after I left SD. It took finding a top level instructor in a solid system, with a solid lineage, to get that, and unfortunately those instructors are kinda rare these days.
But SD has some stuff to offer, as long as you understand it for what it is. I see it as a bit like kenpo. It's got some good, but that road will not take you to the top levels that are possible thru other methods.
Usually you cannot patch things from one system onto another (even tho a lot of people TRY to do so), because their very foundation is different. These things just do not work well when cobbled together that way. And the only way to effectively incorporate elements of one system into another, is to seriously train that system and understand it from the ground up.
Patching some legitimate but poorly understood Hung Gar forms into the Shaolin Do curriculum is not going to make the SD better. It's just going to make the hung gar worse for being patched in and not properly trained.
SD is what it is, and as Sean says, it cannot be changed or improved in that way. It is what it is and will never be other than that.
My own understanding of Chinese methods also came later, after I left SD. It took finding a top level instructor in a solid system, with a solid lineage, to get that, and unfortunately those instructors are kinda rare these days.
But SD has some stuff to offer, as long as you understand it for what it is. I see it as a bit like kenpo. It's got some good, but that road will not take you to the top levels that are possible thru other methods.
oaktree
Master of Arts
I honestly do not know since I do not study it. I have seen some of the forms on Youtube some is good some is not to good. I guess depends on the school.:idunno:
If the people who train in it are happy with it great more power to them. If someone asks me my opinion on it I will say it. I will point out things that seem odd to me.
I cringe everytime I type the word Shaolin-do though.
So Ie Chang Ming teacher was Su Kong Tai Djin who was well....a character who would definely stand out http://www.shaolin-do.com/history.php
I find it odd there is a photo of him so clear for one. I find it odd that he is wearing western clothings instead of his robe.
Why is there a photo of him but a painting of Ie Ching Ming his student?
Maybe someone who is familar with photo's can give a better account.
I don't think that makes it more legit it's just covered with something legit over it. Kinda of like when someone makes something bad and you put cheese over it to make it taste good. I mean why not just go train something that does not have such a questionable line if lineage and pedigree is important to you.
How does it become more authentic? Doesn't it have to start with something authentic already to be authentic? I will use the Taoist Tai Chi Society to illustrate.
The Taoist Tai chi society is not martial Taiji its old lady social hour.
Now if someone trains in Yang Taiji and starts adding Yang Taiji applications to Taoist Tai Chi forms it does not make Taoist Tai Chi authentic martial Taijiquan it simply means someone added applications to it.
It does not mean Taoist Tai Chi can not be useful for health or self defense with the martial application just means its not authentic Taijiquan.
Possible sounds messy. It is disrespectful to talk about your teacher who is alive about his death.
Possible. I mean if you have nothing else or you could travel to the nearest school of what you are looking for. I think most people start off in some Mcdojo or commecialize school nothing wrong with it. Martial talk is a great site to see more seasoned people's views and share opinions on commercial schools or questionable things.
I saw some of the curriculum from one school they added internal arts in their school.
Which is strange because Bagua, Xingyi and Taiji are not from Shaolin so putting them into Shaolin curriculum is weird.
Again just my opinions.
OP
OP
Doomx2001
Green Belt
I just want to say I apologize about talking about if there is going to be a next grandmaster of Shaolin-Do while Sin Kwan The' is still alive. It wasn't anything negative toward him, or wishing him any kind of ill will. Instead I was just pointing out what I feel is a fact of life. There are alot of martial arts that split into rival factions because no clear grandmaster was appointed (American Kenpo, Choi Hapkido, Wing Chun...etc.)
The reason I brought that into the conversation is that regardless of what people think of SD I would hope that a clear successor would be appointed one day and not see something that Sin Kwan The' invested so much of his life and time broken into pieces. Thats all.
But I really do apologize about the question. No offense meant.
Other than that I really do enjoy the 'back an' forth' on this subject. There really isn't that much info about SD outside of those who practice the art itself.
The reason I brought that into the conversation is that regardless of what people think of SD I would hope that a clear successor would be appointed one day and not see something that Sin Kwan The' invested so much of his life and time broken into pieces. Thats all.
But I really do apologize about the question. No offense meant.
Other than that I really do enjoy the 'back an' forth' on this subject. There really isn't that much info about SD outside of those who practice the art itself.
ggg214
Blue Belt
i know the name is just a name, although it sounds weird.
but there is a trend thesedays that more and more people like to label a new name on what he practice, in the purpose of making different with others', even his master's, such as Taiji Do, Xinyi Do(心意道
. do they have any key part different from their oringinal style?
i do agree with Flying Crane's point:"the only way to effectively incorporate elements of one system into another, is to seriously train that system and understand it from the ground up."
any change made to the style should be completely tested not only in teaching but also in fighting.
for me, i prefer to learn the original way of my style. and fortunately, my teacher is the one who does in this way.
but there is a trend thesedays that more and more people like to label a new name on what he practice, in the purpose of making different with others', even his master's, such as Taiji Do, Xinyi Do(心意道
. do they have any key part different from their oringinal style? i do agree with Flying Crane's point:"the only way to effectively incorporate elements of one system into another, is to seriously train that system and understand it from the ground up."
any change made to the style should be completely tested not only in teaching but also in fighting.
for me, i prefer to learn the original way of my style. and fortunately, my teacher is the one who does in this way.
But if you're not learn real martial arts... if you're learning made up forms - what good is all that effort?
All you have to do is look at the video clip that shows him doing "mantis". He is a fraud. His "mantis" is BS, as is anything else I have seen from any "shaolin-do" that I have seen on youtube.
The Classical Martial Arts are not random movements put in an order to practice and try to make it work for you. They were developed by Scholars who were versed in healing arts and sciences... the study of anatomy and body mechanics.
I noticed that no one wants to say that the guy is a phoney. Is it not allowed here? If it is not, I will send it as a PM, but from my experience, Shaolin-Do is made up.
But go ahead and waste your money if you still want to experience it. One thing is for sure - you will NOT learn, nor gain a foundation in Chinese Martial Arts.
Kenpo Missle 47
White Belt
if it works it works , but whos to say ? do style name matter anyways ?
tiger butterfly shaolin tae bo jujitsu wrestling , crazy name but the style is effective.
tiger butterfly shaolin tae bo jujitsu wrestling , crazy name but the style is effective.
Because anything can be discussed without resorting to being inflammatory, especially when the general topic has been beaten about like a deceased equine...
:deadhorse
Trust me... I'm one of the worst critics out there of SD, but I will openly acknowledge the ups to anything when appropriate, SD is not excluded. But I also call ******** in the drop of a hat as well, again when appropriate and NOTHING is excluded.
But please see below ...
:deadhorse
Yes... actually the name does matter very much as well as the pedigree to go along with it.
I meant that I would retract my post and send it as a PM if it was not allowed. :angel:
That's cool, no harm no foul.:ultracool There's a general "No Fraud Busting" policy here on MT & it's in the "How to guide", but in general, the topic has been done to death.
There's a million & one reasons out there to join/not join SD, but ultimately it's the person & what feels good to them.
For me with a background in SD (only 5 years, not that long) & a TCMA background & current training I answer direct questions with pros & cons. Bashing is long over for me.
OP
OP
Doomx2001
Green Belt
What did you think of the Mantis forms? What are the mantis forms anyway?
What did you think of the Hsing Yi stuff taught?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
After studying Praying Mantis... let's just say it's not the same as other mainline Praying Mantis. As far as the sets, they have a couple of mainline sets but others that are strictly unique to SD.
Same as the question above.
