Shadows of Iga

[ppko]

I could not find this question asked anywhere (if it is then I am sorry), is the Shadows of Iga taught by Hatsumi if so is it taught in the smae manner. The reason I ask is because a few months ago I visited Mr. Hayes school in Dayton (I do not practice ninjutsu nor have I ever) and I was able to take a few classes and watch some others. I offered to take the Shadows class but I decided to watch it I was told it was the way they fought in the old days. All in all the people were very nice but I did not care for the way they trained.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15397

 

[r erman]

Shadows of Iga, I guess, would be called the umbrella name for Stepen K Hayes' classical studies programs. It is the portion of To Shin Do that allows for people to test for Bujinkan ranking, but it is still Hayes' curriculum drawn from the TenChiJin Ryaku no Maki and various ryuha gata. Whereas To Shin Do would be considered his goshin(tai)jutsu system.

If you wouldn't mind me asking, what didn't you like about the training?

 

[ppko]

Shadows of Iga, I guess, would be called the umbrella name for Stepen K Hayes' classical studies programs. It is the portion of To Shin Do that allows for people to test for Bujinkan ranking, but it is still Hayes' curriculum drawn from the TenChiJin Ryaku no Maki and various ryuha gata. Whereas To Shin Do would be considered his goshin(tai)jutsu system.

If you wouldn't mind me asking, what didn't you like about the training?

I thought that his training lacked resistance, and a lot of moves could not be pulled off on the street. There was some good techniques but overal I was left disapointed

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

*yaaaaawn*

 

[Kreth]

I didn't realize Hayes was still using the Shadows of Iga name. I thought that name was dropped about the time that his Marishi-kai instructor's guild developed into the Quest franchise program.

 

[Fallen Ninja]

I thought that his training lacked resistance, and a lot of moves could not be pulled off on the street. There was some good techniques but overal I was left disapointed

Alot of the things we practice in Taijutsu arts in the Bujinkan have underline teachings. So for an outsider it would look like a weird dance of weird movements, and that the people just fall down.

It reminds me of the first time I went and I saw everyone doing lunge punches that to me then had no relevence in the street. Man ignorance was bliss! Ha Ha Ha! j/k

It takes a few times actually training for some people to realize whats being taught. Especially if you weren't training and just watching. Also there are some teachers that won't show you exactly what is the underline lesson if you are just a spectator.

:ninja:
FN

 

[arnisador]

I didn't realize Hayes was still using the Shadows of Iga name. I thought that name was dropped about the time that his Marishi-kai instructor's guild developed into the Quest franchise program.

That was my belief too. Apparently not!

Does anyone know how the franchise program is working for him?

 

[MrFunnieman]

Arnistador,

I worked for Mr. Hayes about three years ago, and the name was brought back about four, maybe four and a half years ago. The staff at the time, as well as several students, who wanted more traditional training. That need was met by revitalizing the Shadows of Iga.

I can't say much about the frachising program, because I dealt more with instructing and daily upkeep of the facilities, but I don't think the other schools were technically franchised. They had agreed to (or paid for) certain licensing privilages.

I haven't had much communication with the school since I have left, so things may have changed dramatically since then.

MrFunnieman

 

[Kreth]

I can't say much about the frachising program, because I dealt more with instructing and daily upkeep of the facilities, but I don't think the other schools were technically franchised. They had agreed to (or paid for) certain licensing privilages.

Um... isn't that the definition of franchise? From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

2 a : a special privilege granted to an individual or group; especially : the right to be and exercise the powers of a corporation b : a constitutional or statutory right or privilege; especially : the right to vote c (1) : the right or license granted to an individual or group to market a company's goods or services in a particular territory; also : a business granted such a right or license (2) : the territory involved in such a right

I'll have to see if I can dig up a copy of the old Marishi Kai newsletter in which the announcement was made. I believe the term franchise was used there as well.

 

[arnisador]

I worked for Mr. Hayes about three years ago, and the name was brought back about four, maybe four and a half years ago. The staff at the time, as well as several students, who wanted more traditional training. That need was met by revitalizing the Shadows of Iga.

I can't say much about the frachising program, because I dealt more with instructing and daily upkeep of the facilities, but I don't think the other schools were technically franchised. They had agreed to (or paid for) certain licensing privilages.

OK, thanks for the info.!

 

[MrFunnieman]

Kreth,

That language may have been used, but from what I was told by Hayes they were not true franchises because he did not want to be held accountable for certain taxes, bylaws or whatever.

There were/ are a couple of schools that had more of a gentleman's agreement with Hayes in which they used the To-shin do curriculum and logo without franchising fees. Newer schools pay to use the curriculum, but they are not like a McDonalds in the fact the individual owner has control of most other aspects of the school. Setting tuition rates, the physical layout of the school, extracurricular programs, etc.

I am afraid I have said too much, there will be men in black suits at my door this evening, perhaps in the next few moments, to silence me telling trade secr............................:O

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

off topics mode on

Dear Rob Erman, I tried to reply the PM but your PM box seems to be full

sorry for being off topics! :asian:

PS: I am not an expert at all, and we adhere to different organizations, but I'd still love to compare notes!