Tgace said:
Thats because the people screaming "torture!" loudest cant declare what exactly they consider torture...name what is and isnt acceptable as a technique. Me? Physical abuse: Bad. Things like using lights, isolation etc. to enhance psychological manipulation: OK.
Of course that necessitates making a stand which is in rare supply these days...
It is pretty difficult to name techniques, in the end it doesnĀt matter. What matters are the international agreements we have all signed, and our own laws. From a personal level I wouldnĀt consider using anything that was outside my moral paradigm, this is probably not answering your question though.
We are having a war on terror. This is what we are trying to win, and this goal should not be forgotten in the mallee. There are going to be casualties, it is normal in war. We accept that when we go into battle some will fall. We do this because it is necessary to complete the goal. What we need to consider is that battle fronts can occur in a number of areas, they are not always on the ground with our troops. We need to consider the hearts and minds of others. Most of these terrorists are recruited because their beliefs and living circumstances have been exploited by people like Osama. If we are going to succeed we need to demonstrate clearly that we are not just talking empty words when we claim to respect other races and their cultures, and that the individualĀs rights hold value within our societies, and our justice systems are fair and respected by our leaders. If we neglect this part of the war we will never achieve our goals, we may beat them back for a while, but they will regrow. We need to clearly demonstrate that we have a better method of managing people and societies. One that will welcome them and not seek to subvert their beliefs, we need to clearly demonstrate that it not an us or them situation, and that we care about them and respect their individual cultures.
On the issue of the ink. My thoughts would be that it is not torture, but then IĀm not a devout male Muslim, if I was it would probably effect me much more. What we need to think of is that they did not know it was ink. Movies are only pretend; this doesnĀt stop people suffering clear adverse physical reactions to what they see. I doubt that the method will have any benefit over other more established methods. What we need to understand is the greater effect that this will have.
There are a great number of Muslims in the world that are not terrorists, why do we feel the need to isolate them and drive them from us. During Vietnam the Americans just threw stuff away. The enemy went through their rubbish and used what they could. They also had spotters during the air raids, they would spot the unexploded ordinance and following the bombing would go out and get the ordinance for their own use. We are doing the exact same thing now, but with people. What are the terrorists best weapon? Do you think the way we treat these prisoners will only effect them, or could there be a cascading effect? We need to be very clear about what our actions communicate. There are many people in the Middle East that donĀt support these terrorists, it could be a good idea to try and keep their faith in us
