Self Training...

[Swordlady]

Thanks for the compliments on my avatar, Kroh. I am quite a "Star Wars" geek...

I second the locking of this thread, and would also like to see it Stickied. I really hope and pray that Wolf doesn't seriously hurt himself, like our friend Don Rice on SFI (another "self-taught" swordsman).

By the way, Charles...you know who I am, right?

 

[Ronin Wolf-master]

I am not asking for advice, i am trying to basicly be the voice of the self taught, there are plenty that are speaking for the "trained". I can have plenty of conversations with all of you, and know what i'm talking about.
You say that if i really wanted training i could find away.... well i have tried to find ways, for me there are none, and there might be the same thing for others, thats why we do it our selves, there are no other options. So with that in mind, i speak on my behalf, a self taught swordsman. My point is to not judge all selt trained people, we are all dif., some are good, some suck, we train dif. so to say they all suck.... have you faught all of them, no, so you cant say that and be truthful. Dont look at us like we are stupid, we are doing he best we can, and the best we know how.

And fear of battle can get you killed alot quicker then not being afraid.


Ronin Wolf-master

 

[Charles Mahan]

Ronin,

By now you should realize you won't be convincing anyone.

SwordLady,

He's been pointed to the unfortunate self training incident that Mr. Rice experienced multiple times, but he's young and foolish and will not listen. As to who you are, I have my suspicions.

 

[KenpoTess]

Assist. Admin Note:

Please keep to topic.. there is no need to lock this thread.
Keep the personal issues off board and feel free to utilize the ignore feature if you don't wish to read another member.

If you have problems please PM an Admin.

Thank you,

~Tess
-MT Assist. Admin

 

[Ronin Wolf-master]

Assist. Admin Note:

Please keep to topic.. there is no need to lock this thread.
Keep the personal issues off board and feel free to utilize the ignore feature if you don't wish to read another member.

If you have problems please PM an Admin.

Thank you,

~Tess
-MT Assist. Admin

I agree.

 

[Grenadier]

Wolf,

Even if there are no other kendo / kenjutsu / iaido (etc) teachers in the area, have you explored the possibility of fencing? There should be several clubs in your area, especially if there are some colleges around.

By the way, Charles...you know who I am, right?

Heh. A fellow swordforum.com poster, although you did change your avatar there!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just a side note: I personally value the input of all of the experienced practitioners here, being in a similar "opportunity-poor" position as our young self trainers here. I however choose not to risk self-inflicted injury and will wait until such time as I can locate someone who can train me properly. I ask that while situations such as this can frustrate you, that you please use the features available here such as the "ignore" function to help minimize "frictionable situations".

Peace.

 

[Cryozombie]

also.... this might sound stupid, but what is fudoshin?

When you get some training, you will find out.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[arnisador]

Fencing is a good suggestion. Often a local college will have a club--they'll at least know what's in the area.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In my case, the local fencing school is too "linear" for me. (Good school, just not what I'm looking for.) The FMA training's taught me too much side stepping it seems. LOL!

 

[Ronin Wolf-master]

Wolf,

Even if there are no other kendo / kenjutsu / iaido (etc) teachers in the area, have you explored the possibility of fencing? There should be several clubs in your area, especially if there are some colleges around.

There are none. Besides i dont like fencing, when i was going to publick school they started teaching that, but it sucked (to me). Its not just that there are no places, but that i dont have money to go, and its not just that i dont have money to go, its also that there are no places close enough. I train with my bokken and am as carefull as i can be. :redeme: thats all i can do.

 

[Swordlady]

Just a side note: I personally value the input of all of the experienced practitioners here, being in a similar "opportunity-poor" position as our young self trainers here. I however choose not to risk self-inflicted injury and will wait until such time as I can locate someone who can train me properly. I ask that while situations such as this can frustrate you, that you please use the features available here such as the "ignore" function to help minimize "frictionable situations".

Peace.

It's very hard for experienced sword practioners to ignore the "self-trained swordsmen" (a term I'm using VERY loosely, mind you), not just because of the potential injury that may occur (e.g., Donald Rice) but also because some of us live in countries where sword ownership is being challenged. We already have the misfortune of being misunderstood by many lay people and other martial artists, and are often lumped together with "gun nuts". It also doesn't help that crimes committed by sword seem to be happening more frequently nowadays; I've lost count of the number of threads started on SFI about the latest incident. The last thing that we need are more irresponsible people picking up swords, playing "swordmaster", and hurting themselves - or God forbid, another person. We don't need any more negative publicity. I, for one, do NOT want my swords taken away because of the irresponsible actions of a few.

I take my JSA training very seriously, and it does irk me when some people act like their brand of "self-taught" swordsmanship is equal to an established fighting system that has been passed down by genuine masters of the art.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"Self Taught" can't compare to qualified instruction, and I'm in complete agreement. I personally think anyone who does believe it, simply doesn't understand the nature of the beast.

As to the problems some morons cause, I don't want my swords taken away either because some wannabe-samurai decided to play warrior because it looked "cool". I had to cross Australia off my list of possible homes because of their anti-sword laws.

There are plenty of opportunities for those who are serious, and I feel those who find fault in every opportunity for legit training, lack the maturity to understand the deeper and finer points of any art, not just sword arts. Theres more to any art than just a bunch of movements. The ideas, the fine-tuning, all those require an experienced eye. That's why boxers don't just pick up gloves and fight, they hire coaches and trainers to guide them and focus them. I currently train in the FMA, and while some may say it's just swinging a stick, there is so much more to it that it's not even funny. Same thing with sword arts. Sure its just 'swinging a blade', but it's the little things that make the difference between some jerk with a machete, and a sword master (which is a personal goal of my own).

Backyard self training a martial artist does not make.

 

[pgsmith]

I am not asking for advice, i am trying to basicly be the voice of the self taught, there are plenty that are speaking for the "trained". I can have plenty of conversations with all of you, and know what i'm talking about.

No sir, I have to protest your motives for being here. You cannot be the "voice of the self taught" since you haven't been alive long enough to have done more than played with your toys. You have no life experience, you have no weapons experience, you have absolutely no way of having any clue as to whether what you are doing is anything like what it should be. You have no idea whether what you are doing is valid or not. None. Not even a smidgen. The only way to gain any idea is to learn from someone that already knows since you can't put swordwork into practice without dying or going to jail. That was the point I made earlier in this thread, but you chose to ignore it. You are ignorant, but ignorance can be cured with knowledge. However, when a person revels in their ignorance in order to gain attention, that indicates a deeper problem.

Anyone can learn to swing a sword around. most can learn to do that without causing serious injury. However, it is physically impossible to say that you are "training" in a "sword art" unless there is someone qualified to tell you what you are doing.

Personally, you sound exactly like most of the young teenage kids I deal with. They make excuses all the time also. I always tell them what an old apache gentleman told me when I was close to your age and was making my own excuses. He told me to look very carefully whenever I make an excuse. He said that nobody ever makes an excuse unless they've screwed something up. If you find yourself making an excuse for anything, look very carefully to discover just what it is that you've screwed up.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i really dont think a 15 year old kid with the word "master" in his name, espousing self training for a serious study deserves a place in this forum.

just my opinion

 

[Charles Mahan]

The only way to gain any idea is to learn from someone that already knows since you can't put swordwork into practice without dying or going to jail.

See that's one of the things that i find so disturbing about this kid. He posted this:

So yes, it does happen. And where i am, people walk down the road carrying frieken rifels! LOADED! not to menshion one of the older kids who has a criminal rap for attemted murder to his ex. also tried to choke me once..... so yeah, i like to have a sword on. :wink:

It sounds disturbingly like he has every intention of having a sword handy in case he does get to put his stuff into practice. The kid sounds like he's looking for an excuse. At least his latest posts make it sound like he's only swinging wood now. Perhaps we got through to him a little bit.

I sure wish i understood why the moderators are letting this thread stay open. There is no dicussion here. There are a couple of kids talking about how cool their backyard ryu is and imploring us to take them seriously and pretty much everyone else trying to talk them into real training or at the very least a few meaningful safety precautions along with some warnings that whatever it is they are doing is nothing at all like the real thing. That pattern in the thread became obvious 5 or 6 pages ago. Nothing of any real value has been contributed in all that time, nor is likely to be. The topic is well and truly done.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The question of closing this threads being discussed. It's not usually our policy to lock things unless they really get out of hand. This thread hasn't done that, though probably could stand to simply die off. There's been alot of good arguments against self training through out, and some good links.

 

[Charles Mahan]

Oh don't get me wrong. The thread is very valuable and should be hung on to. Heck I'd make it sticky. I probably will post links to with in the rules posts over at Budoseek and FightingArts. That is if i ever get around to writing those posts

 

[MJS]

I sure wish i understood why the moderators are letting this thread stay open. There is no dicussion here. There are a couple of kids talking about how cool their backyard ryu is and imploring us to take them seriously and pretty much everyone else trying to talk them into real training or at the very least a few meaningful safety precautions along with some warnings that whatever it is they are doing is nothing at all like the real thing. That pattern in the thread became obvious 5 or 6 pages ago. Nothing of any real value has been contributed in all that time, nor is likely to be. The topic is well and truly done.

The old saying "don't add wood to the fire" comes to mind here. I agree, the topic is pretty much a redundant issue. IMHO both sides have stated their views. Eventually, threads will die out due to inactivity, lack of interest, or nothing else worth saying. That being said, I have noticed a few people state that they wish that this thread would be locked. That probably will not happen, for reasons already said, but by not replying to posts, the thread just may get the rest that it needs.

Just my .02.:asian:

Mike

 

[Ojiisan]

One may think they are self-taught, whereby they have seen or heard something that they copy. Kenny Wayne Sheppard is a self-taught guitarist; however, he began by trying to play like Muddy Waters who he listened to from his father's record collection. True self taught would be someone in total isolation coming up with a method of playing a musical instrument, fighting, etc..... So, in today's world; there is no pure self-taught.