self defense and martail art longevity

[Bigshadow]

"Because then the fools of them would mess it up, while the higher ranks pays the consequences. (this perspective)"
Other senseis should not be connected to him, because he is supposed to be the best example for ninjutsu. And we dont want to ruin that

I don't understand... Please explain more?

 

[Mustafa]

I don't understand... Please explain more?

I am not sure how to explain better.
But, it is like the idea of generalizing.

 

[exile]

(by the way sixty is really young according to me and my 81 year old student)

Music to my ears, BVC!

And really, really true (at least, I fervently hope so...)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Music to my ears, BVC!

And really, really true (at least, I fervently hope so...)

It is absolutely true!

 

[Bigshadow]

I am not sure how to explain better.
But, it is like the idea of generalizing.

Oh, OK. I understand.

 

[Monadnock]

as i have been reading some of the threads here it has brought a very important question to my minid.that is,what is a style of self defese/martial art that is practical for real world survival that can be studied and practiced as a person gets older.meaning even into very old age such as the 80's and 90's? a style that will work on the ground as well as standing up.
i have seen a little bit of talk about people not being able to study harder styles as they get older and having to switch to a softer style such as tai chi.
another question i have is that with a lot of soft styles there seems to be a major focus on spiritual things that im not interested in.i say that because im a christian and i don't want to get involved in spiritual things that might conflict with my faith.i just don't want it to be an issue.
all that said i have been looking into studying japanese jujitsu and ed parkers american kenpo.how do these styles fair for a person as they age?
the thing is that i don't want to start a style right now at 30 years old that i will have to stop in the future because of getting old.
does anyone have any advice?
sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but i don't know where else that this thread would fit.
thanks

This seems to be a 3-part question, and a very good one at that.

A practical art for real world survival would be one that takes into account modern combative techniques. Streetfighting is different than battlefield fighting. I assume you are interested in self-defense rather than joining an army. Just as old traditional schools taught battlefield proven techniques, a true self-defense school would be teaching proven street-effective techniques. I don't know of too many. The brawling/dojo busting seems to be a thing of the past.

A lot of styles do work on the ground. Anyone on this board that does ground-fighting will gladly tell you so. Its fad hit a peak a few years ago but it still remains popular.

Spirituality differes from school to school. But you mentioned Japanese Ju Jutsu. Most Japanese dojo have an underlying Shinto theme but it usually is only recognized at the start and end of class, and maybe inbetween (such as not pointing swords towards the kamidana). You also mention Parker Kenpo, which does not recognize any specific religion in class (for the most part), but if you read Parker's books, you'll note he was spiritual, and a Christian. Do a little reading on Shinto and you might not have a lot of conflict with it.

My .02

Mike

 

[Kenpodoc]

Age really shouldn't be a factor if a person has dedicated themselves to a martial art (whatever style). Look at the founders of Aikido, Jujutsu, Judo and EPAK for starters (Parker wasn't as old but he was in his late 50's and going strong before he died... of a heart attack). Then look at Yip-man and his son Yip-sing, both were still practicing and teaching their art (Wing Chun) at an advanced age. I had the privalege to go hands on with Yip-sing on learning a particular techinque and I'll tell ya right now, at 80+ years old that is one guy I would not want to seriously mess with; there was nothing wrong with that man's speed or strength.
How well you keep yourself in shape and how well you avoid practices that'll bring on arthritis and other age wearing stuff (whatever!) will determine how long you can study that particular art. If you're young and go for a hard style, then stop for about 10-15 years then want to get back into MA... then it'll depend upon how you lived during that hiatus. Did nothing but a desk job 9-5 every day and the most strenuous activity on the weekend was mowing the yard with no other exercise ... then yeah you'd probably, MAYBE want to go to a softer art. But if you were the opposite or had a hard-physical job and went say Rock Climbing every other weekend and exercised reguarly then no reason is there for you NOT to get back into whatever hard-art you were doing before or a newer one.
You make the determination on how "old" or how weak you'll become in your advanced years. The saying is very true, you're as old/young as you feel. Taking care of yourself and your body throughout your life is tantamount to the rest of it (marriage/family/career and so on). I've known guys 70 years old that beat a bunch of 20-30 somethings on a 4 mile-1500 foot elevation gain hike. Simply because he took care of himself.
Again, it's not the art but the artist.

Age does count and regardless of how you take care of yourself age will take its toll. 70 year olds can be very fit but that is a matter of both exercise and genetics. Even the most fit 70 year old heals slower than 20 year olds and deconditions faster. That said as you age even people studying hard arts get more efficient and effective at redirecting attackers. Mr. Parker was remarkable at the end of his career but he was no longer the fit young man he had been in the '50s, instead he had learned to be more efficient as a martial artist. His body mechanics in the '80s are far superior to the tapes from the early '60's. I'm biased but I believe that Parker style Kenpo is an excellent art for both the young and the old because of its mixture of hard and soft.

Respectfully,

Jeff

 

[Drac]

That would be a big mistake. Imagine laying your hands on Hatsumi Soke. He would tie you up in a pretzel and he is almost 75!

I have this fantasy of swearing in Uncle Bill, Grandmaster Pellegrini and Hatumi Soke has part time cops and placing them undercover..Imagine the surprize of some gang-banger who grab one of these skinny older men thinking they are an easy target...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have this fantasy of swearing in Uncle Bill, Grandmaster Pellegrini and Hatumi Soke has part time cops and placing them undercover..Imagine the surprize of some gang-banger who grab one of these skinny older men thinking they are an easy target...

They certainly would be in for a surprise! Thinking here is a little old man that I can mess with and next thing you know.... whamo ..... down to the ground in pain.

 

[MA-Caver]

Age does count and regardless of how you take care of yourself age will take its toll. 70 year olds can be very fit but that is a matter of both exercise and genetics. Even the most fit 70 year old heals slower than 20 year olds and deconditions faster. That said as you age even people studying hard arts get more efficient and effective at redirecting attackers. Mr. Parker was remarkable at the end of his career but he was no longer the fit young man he had been in the '50s, instead he had learned to be more efficient as a martial artist. His body mechanics in the '80s are far superior to the tapes from the early '60's. I'm biased but I believe that Parker style Kenpo is an excellent art for both the young and the old because of its mixture of hard and soft.

Respectfully,

Jeff

Jeff, having been a (practice) uke for a (up to her) 2nd Brown EPAK I won't argue there about the fact that the art is good for both young and old, after analyzing the moves while they're being practised on me . Nor will I argue on genetics and that some people will just whither away regardless of how hard they trained/worked out whilst they were young. But the ideal still remains that they will still be far more effective in a (real-life) defense situation than someone who did nothing to excercise their bodies (and mind/spirits)... beyond their thumbs with the television remotes. The great masters the others spoke about are clear representatives of that.
True, that muscles shrink and bones become brittle in advanced years. But as you said and as Brian mentioned:

<snip> that as you age and your technique gets better you whittle away at those non essential movements. You see this specifically in all of the great teachers and artists.

I've done this myself. I've done away with most of the TKD that I learned in my younger years because, mainly I haven't practised with it as much as I should've but for other reasons as well... as I found most of my (potential) combative quarters to be closed in and roundhouses with my foot aren't going to work out as effeciently as a round house with my fist. Of course had I stayed with it (TKD) I'd be talking differently now.
I'm rapidly approaching 45 and I must say that I'm in the best shape of my life due to my activities. Right now I'm in transit but will probably, very likely enter a dojo and resume my studies... this time around as a formal student.

 

[exile]

It is absolutely true!

OK, I hear ya! :asian:

 

[Rook]

Most styles should still work as you get older, although adjustments will have to be made on a personal basis.

Jack Dempsey KOed two men while sitting down in a taxi with one punch a piece when he was in his 80s - a fact attested to by multiple witnesses, and admitted to in court no less by the would-be robbers themselves.

 

[drummingman]

wow.thanks all for the great responses!
im really a newbe when it comes to the martial arts so i really appreciate the the info and advice.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Most styles should still work as you get older, although adjustments will have to be made on a personal basis.

Jack Dempsey KOed two men while sitting down in a taxi with one punch a piece when he was in his 80s - a fact attested to by multiple witnesses, and admitted to in court no less by the would-be robbers themselves.

Was it his 70s or 80s? that's the one conflicting part i've heard, the rest is attested to. Is his exact age at the time of the incident known?

 

[Phoenix44]

Tai Chi

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wing Chun too.

The Ip boys are no spring chickens and I wouldn't want to tangle with them.

I also saw an 80-year-old Xingyi master that just scared me by looking at me.

And I saw 2 guys doing some of the best Long fist I have seen and by the looks of them they were in their late 80s to early 90s.

 

[Master Panto]

as i have been reading some of the threads here it has brought a very important question to my minid.that is,what is a style of self defese/martial art that is practical for real world survival that can be studied and practiced as a person gets older.meaning even into very old age such as the 80's and 90's? a style that will work on the ground as well as standing up.
i have seen a little bit of talk about people not being able to study harder styles as they get older and having to switch to a softer style such as tai chi.
another question i have is that with a lot of soft styles there seems to be a major focus on spiritual things that im not interested in.i say that because im a christian and i don't want to get involved in spiritual things that might conflict with my faith.i just don't want it to be an issue.
all that said i have been looking into studying japanese jujitsu and ed parkers american kenpo.how do these styles fair for a person as they age?
the thing is that i don't want to start a style right now at 30 years old that i will have to stop in the future because of getting old.
does anyone have any advice?
sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but i don't know where else that this thread would fit.
thanks

:asian:..
Gud day to you all Buddy,

I am Master Panto from Cebu Philippines..I practice self defense in the art of eskrima..I personally built a club which is known as "Filmocan" this is a club of group of individuals coming from different folks of life but having thesame purpose which is to preserve and innovate the art of Eskrima..did you know san Miguel Eskrima?...we are ones disciples of the leaders of the said organization..In our club we probably have our own style and technique in the field of eskrima..not to mention that we practice unique type of self defense art....if you are much likely interested in the club, feel free send me private message and I am willing to attend all the questions you have in mind about eskrima..
Hope to hear you soon......

God Bless...

Master Panto