Self defence situations involving FMA

[lklawson]

Do you have any source images you can share? I found the Johnsons's stance and it's the same position Doug was referring on how the US Marines fought in the ring, it further proves his case.

images? I've got a crap ton I posted right here on this very site.

Album: Kirk

pay attention to the ones that are pre 20th century. There's a bunch of them.

There's so much you have to ignore to believe FMA had no influence on boxing. You have the boxers themselves with FMA backgrounds saying where they got certain techniques from, yet you are completely ignoring the words from their own mouths. You have professional sports journalists with non-FMA backgrounds who acknowledge the influence as well.

who apparently don't know the early history or haven't read the old manuals. It's all right there you just have to look at them. I've given you lots of references. Do you want me to do all your work for you?

You have only used boxing sources to try and prove your point. I have avoided solely using FMA sources for if they weren't corroborated by third party/non-FMA sources it would be subjective. I can show old FMA forms/illustrations that have movements you see in boxing today, but that alone wouldn't be enough to make a case.

the reason I only have to use old boxing manuals and illustrations is that's all that is required to show you that they claimed Filipino influence really wasn't there. Everything that the claim says was added to boxing was inboxing before the alleged influence.t It's really that simple.

It's not a claim, it's a fact that's backed up by proof.

Sorry about your luck, but that's just not true. The old manuals clearly show that everything you think was added was in there before.

(mobile)

 

[geezer]

...It's not a claim, it's a fact that's backed up by proof.

Awwww...facts, schmacts. Whatta I care about facts? I'm going with Lawson on this one, at least in that most of the stuff we've been talking about was floating around in old-school boxing to begin with. And some of it was in FMA. So if some of the great Filipino boxers got it from FMA and used it in boxing, that's great too.

My first Escrima teacher, Rene Latosa, learned his empty hand stuff, his cadena de mano mainly from the great Maximo Sarmiento. He joined the service and boxed for the USAF ...without any prior Western boxing experience. On the one hand, he was really able to exploit his unorthodox FMA background. On the other hand, he insists that when you come down to it, fighting is fighting. Sure, FMA was his foundation, but his drop-step method of power generation could just as easily come right out of Dempsey's book, Championship Fighting.

Another thing, the single stick fighting "box system" he taught me is absolutely Filipino, but sure looks a lot like simple European-sourced cutlass work, except that we retract the hand quicker (for lack of a hand-guard on our weapon). Coincidence? I think not. Filipinos were pressed into service on Spanish ships and had to help defend them if attacked. The available weapon was, of course, a cutlass.

You know, I look at the FMA I learned as a global martial art coming out of the Philippines, kinda like adobo, Filipino ...with all kinds of flavors from everywhere. And that's pretty cool IMO.

 

[geezer]

double post

 

[Anarax]

mages? I've got a crap ton I posted right here on this very site.

Album: Kirk

pay attention to the ones that are pre 20th century. There's a bunch of them.

I've seen similar illustrations before. Many of the pictures show the exact hand positions that Doug Marcaida was referring to in the video. Johnson's attitude stance you specifically referred is also similar to what Doug was talking about. Where's the pic that disproves FMA introduced the Bolo punch?

who apparently don't know the early history or haven't read the old manuals. It's all right there you just have to look at them. I've given you lots of references.

The amount of pictures you have is impressive, but it doesn't backup the claims you've made.

Do you want me to do all your work for you?

So it's only work when you link the pictures you've posted?

the reason I only have to use old boxing manuals and illustrations is that's all that is required to show you that they claimed Filipino influence really wasn't there. Everything that the claim says was added to boxing was inboxing before the alleged influence.t It's really that simple.

The Filipino boxers themselves said how and what influenced the way they fought, yet you completely ignore that.

Sorry about your luck, but that's just not true. The old manuals clearly show that everything you think was added was in there before.

They haven't though, many of the images are just different illustrations of the same positions/techniques.

You and I can debate the amount or extent FMA had on boxing. However, you saying there wasn't any influence would be as inaccurate as me saying FMA solely influenced boxing.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

To try and bring this back on topic. What would be go to basics be in whoever opinion? And do any of you know of a style of FMA which starts unarmed earlier than most others?

 

[lklawson]

I've seen similar illustrations before. Many of the pictures show the exact hand positions that Doug Marcaida was referring to in the video. Johnson's attitude stance you specifically referred is also similar to what Doug was talking about. Where's the pic that disproves FMA introduced the Bolo punch?


The amount of pictures you have is impressive, but it doesn't backup the claims you've made.


So it's only work when you link the pictures you've posted?


The Filipino boxers themselves said how and what influenced the way they fought, yet you completely ignore that.


They haven't though, many of the images are just different illustrations of the same positions/techniques.

You and I can debate the amount or extent FMA had on boxing. However, you saying there wasn't any influence would be as inaccurate as me saying FMA solely influenced boxing.

Dude, look at the dates. These pictures, and books which I have referenced for you, which you are dismissive of predate the alleged influence. After that, if you won't accept the clear evidence, then whatever.

I'll give you the last word. Here use this line:
_________________________________

 

[punisher73]

Dude, look at the dates. These pictures, and books which I have referenced for you, which you are dismissive of predate the alleged influence. After that, if you won't accept the clear evidence, then whatever.

I'll give you the last word. Here use this line:
_________________________________

I believe you and I have spoken on this before and are in agreement. The FMA CLAIM was that boxers had NEVER seen this type of thing before and it was all added by the filipinos due to their knife work. This has been shown to be false. IF this was the case, there would be lots of documentation and commentary on how the boxing world was revolutionized by what they discovered there.

It's like the claim that the US Army had to "invent the .45" to combat the filipinos. It is a twist of what was already known about the new .38 that the military that was trying to use and already found to be ineffective and transitioning the already known reliable .45 blackpowder round to a .45 cartridge. The move would have been made regardless and was in the process, it just happened to occur there when it happened.

I see this as another re-write of things to cast a better light on the FMA's with no actual historical proof.